Oral history interview with Darlene Harjo

Little Thunder: This is Julie Pearson-Little Thunder with the Oklahoma Oral History Research Program at Oklahoma State University. Today is May 31, 2019, and I'm interviewing Darlene Pensoneau Harjo [at the Chilocco Annual Reunion] as part of a collaboration with the Chilocco Alumni group. Darlene, you have worked in a number of areas as an administrative assistant, and you also have experience working in nursing homes and with the homeless, the Salvation Army here in Ponca City. You're a former Chilocco student who attended from 1968 to 1971. I look forward to learning more about your Chilocco experiences and the way they've impacted your life. Thanks for taking the time to talk to me.

Harjo: You're more than welcome.

Little Thunder: Where were you born, and where did you grow up?

Harjo: I was born in Ponca City, Oklahoma, and I was one of eight children. I was raised by my mother and my father, and they're both alumni from Chilocco, as well as my grandparents are alumni. It's a big Chilocco family that I come from.

Little Thunder: And Ponca, right?

Harjo: Yes, ma'am.

Little Thunder: What did your mother and father do for a living?

Harjo: Like I said, I come from a very large family. They were both Ponca Indian. My father, he was going to become, after Chilocco, he was preparing 2:00himself to go into a medical field as a doctor. He was a very intelligent man and athletic. He got a spot on his lung which turned out to be tuberculosis. He had to spend three years flat on his back in a sanatorium, and he wasn't able to pursue his career. He did mostly, I guess, labor jobs. He worked as a gardener. He planted a lot of the trees from the Chilocco arch to Chilocco. When I go down that driveway and I see all the beautiful trees that he planted.... He was a great gardener and landscaper. He worked with Ponca City schools for a number of years in a custodial capacity. While he had those jobs, he was also a member of our Ponca Tribal Business Committee as a secretarial clerk.

He kept minutes for our Ponca Tribal Business Committee. I could hear him typing way late at night on a manual typewriter. He'd be typing up his notes. Like I 3:00said, he worked very hard for him family, to feed all his children and his wife. I was just so blessed to have him as a father, very good, sterling example of hard work. He lived to be eighty-seven, and he was still mobile and ambulatory. Just before he took his last breath, he asked to be stood up. He died from colon cancer, but he was just a very dynamic person that made a positive impact, not only on me but my brothers and sisters. I had five brothers and sisters that graduated from Oklahoma University, but it was because of my father's encouraging us to put education in the forefront.

As a result, all his kids had degrees. I went to technical school. I'm proud to be a part of the Pensoneau family and Chilocco family. My mother attended school 4:00here, but she didn't graduate. She was always a homemaker, home mother. Her name was [inaudible], and that means "homemaker." She was very culturally involved with our tribe. She come from a large family of [inaudible]. They had twenty-nine military men in the family. Every year, we celebrate the veterans just before Memorial Day. As far as I can remember, I've been introduced and participating in our local Ponca culture. I'm a proud Ponca Princess, 1969. I was going to school at Chilocco.

Little Thunder: While you were here.

Harjo: Yes. On the weekends if there was a dance, I would get to go to the dances. Most primarily, I spent my time here at Chilocco.

Little Thunder: So you boarded here while you were here?

Harjo: Yes. Like I said, I graduated in '71, but 1969 I was Powwow Princess. I got to represent Chilocco, carrying the school banner in front of our band. I wasn't a band member, (I was in the choral singing group) but I had the honor of carrying the school banner in the parades. I really enjoyed that, even though I would get one or two blocks ahead of them. (Laughs) I was a cheerleader for three years here, and I got to go to all the football games, basketball games. We didn't win very often.

Little Thunder: And traveled to different cities, right?

Harjo: Yes.

Little Thunder: What were some places you went?

Harjo: Oh, my. Chilocco was not one of the higher classes of school. I don't even know if it was a 1A, 4A, or what, but we did have a lot of football games. 6:00I was very energetic. Sometimes I didn't know what the--I wasn't a close athletic follower. When the other team would make a touchdown, I'd be jumping around because I didn't know about touchdowns and all that. (Laughter) I was just a very bouncy kind of person. When I tried out for Chilocco cheerleading, I was so happy, I did my cheer bouncing all the way out the door. Anyway, that's the way I was. I've been blessed to be a part of this school and all the memories. When I come back for the reunions, I have a big lump in my throat because I could see us changing classes and I could see all my friends. It's just bittersweet. I love being here, and when I come back and I see the 7:00buildings in disarray, sometimes it affects me. There's still some of my class members I'm able to connect with during the reunions, and that's a good thing.

Little Thunder: That is a good thing.

Harjo: My brothers and sisters all went to school here, too, and like I said, we're pretty much a Chilocco family. I have aunts and uncles that were employed here. They were--my uncle Francis Hernandez, he was a member of our cooking [staff]. They made the meals for the students.

Little Thunder: So he lived on the grounds, probably, with his family?

Harjo: Yes, he did. His sister, her name was Ophelia Hernandez. We called her Aunt [Phelie]. She was employed for the power plant. Chilocco is really self-sustaining. They had their own post office. They had their own power plant. They had everything, cattle. They had--I don't know. I was a lifeguard one time 8:00because we had our own swimming pool.

Little Thunder: Tell me about that, because nobody has talked about lifeguarding here. I'd also like to know a little more about the choral singing group, but let's start with the lifeguarding.

Harjo: Okay. I lived in Ponca City all my life, and one summer they had lifesaving classes. The Red Cross or somebody put them on. I went, and I learned lifesaving. I got certified as a lifeguard. When I came back to school here at Chilocco, we did have a swimming pool.

Little Thunder: When was that put in? Do you know?

Harjo: Oh, my. It wasn't brand new when I was there, so it was probably, I'd say, at least ten years old by the time I got here. They found out. I didn't 9:00tell them, but somebody told them that I had a lifesaving certification, so they asked me to be a lifeguard. Mostly I just sat there and watched them. I didn't really have to save anybody, but I used the lifesaving experience from here to be a lifeguard. Actually, I was the lifeguard at Yosemite Valley in California. They had a lake there, and I got to be a lifeguard out there, thanks to my Chilocco experience. It was a good job. We all enjoyed swimming there. It was during our gym classes that our gym teacher would let us swim every now and then, instead of playing sports or whatever.

Little Thunder: You had your choice if you wanted to swim.

Harjo: Yeah, we did like to. I never stayed here during the summertime, during 10:00summer school. I always went home, but I'm sure they utilized that swimming pool during that time. That was good experience for me. I was a cheerleader, and they asked me to work in our bank. We had a bank here, and they asked me to be a teller. I had to turn it down because I'd rather cheer. I'd rather be a cheerleader.

Little Thunder: Would that have been student employment? Would you have been compensated for that, or it just would've been--

Harjo: It was volunteer.

Little Thunder: --volunteer, like your other details.

Harjo: Yes. I did have detail. Everybody had to keep their room very clean. When I first got here, I lived in Home Four. I was only fifteen or sixteen, and I knew about housekeeping because my mother taught me a lot. I was kind of, not lazy, but my room was not always--. They had colors. They would inspect your 11:00room every morning. Red was very bad, yellow was passing, and green was real good. Ours was always red, so I missed out on a lot of the activities because if you got a red on your room, which is messy, then they would restrict you from going to activities like dances, movies, whatnot. I spent a lot of my time working off my hours in the dining room.

Little Thunder: How about the choral singing group? Did that travel places, too? Tell us about that.

Harjo: I have a high soprano voice, and my music teacher, (her name was Mrs. Warren) she recognized that I had a high, loud voice. She asked me to join the chorale, which is the elite club of the best singers. We participated with 12:00banquets and a lot of the proms, and they would spotlight us every now and then for a school program. She also put on a yearly musical. I was an actress, actress/singer. I remember one of the productions I was in was called Gotta Get a Gal. I had a wig, and I made my dress in home ec. It was fun. I had a detachable sleeve. The men were supposed to fight over me, cowboys, and then they were supposed to pull my sleeve off. One of my lines was, "My dress! My dress! My beautiful dress!"

Little Thunder: You still remember!

Harjo: It was already detachable, so they didn't really ruin my dress. It was part of the script. The extracurricular activities were not only fun but 13:00educational. Who would've thought I'd be on stage? Who would have thought I would be at a prom, singing? Like I said, the things I learned here, as well as other places, has really benefitted me over the years. It's been almost fifty years for me since I've been here. To me, the memories--I dream about Chilocco. The memories are embedded in my mind. I will never forget this place. I hope as years go by that my children will understand that this was a great place, "the light on the prairie." My dad was always talking about how good it was. His mother was the matron here for the boys' dorm. Like I said, it's ingrained in our family.

Little Thunder: Did he grow up on the grounds, then, a little bit? Did she live on--.

Harjo: No, she commuted. They had a farm right outside of Tonkawa, so he started working the fields when he was twelve years old. That's where I think--that ingrained a lot of hard-work ethic into his life because he worked day and night, 24/7, not only labor but working for our tribe as a tribal administrator. He's a Chilocco alumni. My mother, she went to school here, but I don't believe she graduated. She remembers fondly her Chilocco memories. I remember having apple fights because we had an apple orchard, and during fall, they would give us apples a lot during our meals. We would just save them and have apple fights after we was supposed to eat. (Laughter) I was famous for being a chowhound and 15:00making my way up to the front of the line before they opened the doors, and almost got in a fist fight over that. I was pretty bold in those days. We would eat, and then I'd finish eating real quick, put a slice of bread on the person in front of me so that it'd be on their shoulder while they were emptying their tray. Then I would go back to my dorm and change my hair or change my shirt. Then I'd come back and eat again. (Laughs) Just silly things sometimes like that.

There was a lot of good memories and a lot of bad memories, too. Some of my classmates died while we was here for different reasons. We used to go on the railroad tracks to Ark City sometimes at night. I'm telling off on myself, but 16:00sometimes we'd purchase alcohol. We'd dress our classmates up with the baby powder in their hair so they looked old and put a pipe in their mouth and send them in the liquor store. Then we'd come back. Anyway, it was fun and memorable. I have really beautiful memories of this place, and I just can't forget. I was here four years. You can get a lot of memories during that time, and you remember your classmates. I had some very, very good classmates, I guess you could say a clique or something, because there was seventeen hundred students here, all over the United States. I can't even count how many tribes there was.

A lot of them spoke their language very fluently. I know my language, but it's kind of spotty because my mother, when she went to a government school, they 17:00were punished for speaking their language or singing their traditional songs. Mostly what I learned was just from being around her and my grandparents. My dad, he didn't, even though his mother is full-blooded Ponca, because of the stigma of them being disciplined. They didn't really discipline us here. They disciplined us, but we just had to do work. We'd mop, go in the dining room, and that's about it. Some of the boys got their hair shaved, and then they'd get automatic ten hours off of their--discipline. Then they would actually get, (I hate to say this) they would get handcuffed to the stairwell and live on bread and water for two or three days. It was--they chose to do it. It wasn't forced 18:00on them. They said--.

Little Thunder: Are you saying this was during the time you were here?

Harjo: Yes. Like I said, a lot of the kids, they would run off to the nearest town and try to purchase alcohol. If they come back drinking, then they would get disciplined if not kicked out.

Little Thunder: That was the punishment.

Harjo: That was one of the punishments. All in all, if I weighed the pros and cons, it would have to be mostly pros because, like I said, the academics was not very hard. I was always almost a straight-A student, but I think it's from my dad. Now I can write poems. I've won national awards for my poetry, and it's been published. Every year we have a literacy fair at our Ponca powwow, and I always win first.

Little Thunder: That's wonderful!

Harjo: No competition. That's my screen name on some of my accounts is Ponca 19:00Poet. That's me. I'm a poet, and I know it. (Laughter)

Little Thunder: That's great. Do you remember, did any of the teachers or administrators stand out in any way?

Harjo: Several. Mrs. Warren, the music director, she's one of them that was very influential on me because she acknowledged my voice, my singing voice. She encouraged it, and she helped me with the acting. I was with the Up With People group, traveling for a while.

Little Thunder: Oh, that's a fantastic achievement. We need to mention that. Do you know approximately what years?

Harjo: It was after I finished Chilocco, so it was around 1971, '72. All of my 20:00brothers and sisters toured with Up With People, and they went around the world. When I traveled, it was singing out in California. We went to all the places in California. My brothers and sisters were in it as PR people. They would set up the accommodations and stuff like that. They went around the world. They're lucky. Like I said, Chilocco had a positive influence on our family. We went on to bigger and better things because of this place. This was our launching pad. I can't think enough good things about this place. It's just awesome. There was a book written about it called They Called It Prairie Light, and my dad couldn't wait for it to be out in print. I read it. It was pretty good because it was 21:00talking about the way it started and stuff like that. I didn't know that, and I didn't know we had a cemetery until today because it was overgrown.

Little Thunder: So the students were unaware of the cemetery?

Harjo: No, we didn't know as far as I know. None of my classmates ever talked about it. I just found out that there was several, sixty-nine people that they know of, and they're going to enlarge the fences because there's over a hundred. I didn't know that, but now I do and went to the dedication. It was very moving that we can remember students that passed away that were never able to go home. I met some people today from Arizona. When I was here, we had a lot of Navajos and a lot of Eskimos, like I said, over seventeen hundred students. I'm proud to 22:00be a member of that, to lead them on in cheers and stuff like that.

Little Thunder: You have friendships with Navajo and--.

Harjo: Yeah, and develop friendships. I'm a very outgoing type of person. I'm not afraid to go and ask somebody, "Hey, what's your name? Where are you from?" That way, I get to make friends. Sometimes I know them. Sometimes I know their family or some friends of theirs, but it's good. You only live once. You might as well make the best of it while you're here. I'm blessed to have four boys, two daughters, and they gave me twenty-seven grandchildren and five great-grandchildren.

Little Thunder: Congratulations.

Harjo: God blessed me to be able to see that. Not in my wildest dreams when I 23:00was going to school at Chilocco did I think that I would have twenty-seven grandchildren or five great-grandchildren. It's great. I feel like I'm blessed. I got to meet a lot of tribes here, and I got to learn some of their language. We say "[baah]" in Ponca just to express, "What? What do you mean?" In Navajo, [baah] means "bread." They told me that. They said, "You know you're saying 'bread' all the time?" "No, that's not what it means in my--." That's things I said, learning words and just talking to them.

Little Thunder: Did you take them to some of the Ponca dances on weekends, some of your friends?

Harjo: Oh, yes, yes. When I was going to school freshman year, it was more like 24:00a--ward. We had, like, seven bunk beds in one room. There was a lot of different tribes in one room. Whenever the weekend come, I'd ask my parents if I could bring one or two home. Then I'd take them to dances with me, and so yeah, I made a lot of friends. My best friend was Comanche. She's from Lawton, around that area. She lives there in Newkirk now, and we're still friends after fifty years.

Little Thunder: Did she stay after she graduated or just made her way back eventually?

Harjo: She made her way back. She married a man that owned a home here, so now she has her homestead here and her children. They're all in one neighborhood. Like I said, that's my best friend. I met her. She was fourteen, and I just turned fifteen. Yeah, we're still friends.

Little Thunder: You mentioned Yosemite Valley and lifeguarding there. Did you 25:00live outside of Oklahoma for a while after you left Chilocco?

Harjo: Briefly. When I was in California, that's when I was involved with Up with People. The lifesaving job was more or less a day job because we lived right close by there. Bear Creek is where I was at. That's right by Merced, California, desert, hot, 120 degrees. That's where I was at. I was so dark when I come back to Oklahoma, my mother didn't recognize me. (Laughs) It was hot out there. I lived there. I lived a lot of places in Kansas: Dodge City, Liberal. I 26:00lived some places in Oklahoma: Miami and Oklahoma City. It was just temporary. Ponca City's my home, and I always come back to it. That's where I'm at now. Well, I live in White Eagle, part of the Ponca country. That's where I live. I like it. It's nice except for the flooding. The river is right at my back door. I'm scared of snakes. It's all right. I feel like I'm closer involved because I live in White Eagle. I can go to more cultural activities. I'm blessed that my children and my grandchildren are taking after me in that they're all on the arena and they all dance. I'm so happy about that.

Little Thunder: That's wonderful. What's the most surprising place you ran into a Chilocco alum?

Harjo: Surprising? I do go to reunions. Let's see. I believe it was in 27:00California I ran into one. There's several tribes out in California. My sister Charmaine was married to a Pomo Indian. They're from California. I believe I met one around that area, around the Pomo tribe, and they told me that they was at Chilocco. That was surprising for me. Like I said, I have a lot of classmates that were from Alaska, Point Barrow--.

Little Thunder: Have you been up to visit?

Harjo: Some of them are on my Facebook. I have a very good friend. Her name was Verla Jackson, but she goes by Verla Wright now. She was also my roommate at Chilocco. Met her and still communicate fairly often. Then I have another man 28:00friend. His name is Kenneth Deputy. He's Blackfoot Indian, and he's from Montana. We still communicate. It's neat, having people all over the country that you can still talk to. I'm happy. My best friend is Comanche. Poncas are mostly my family, but I have friends that I made here that are from all over. I'm getting emotional. (Laughter)

Little Thunder: Well, is there anything else that we should talk about, you haven't mentioned, or anything you'd like people to know about Chilocco that you don't think you've touched on yet?

Harjo: Most of the time when I talk to people about my time here, I always try to emphasize that we were self-sufficient. We had our own dairy. We had a commissary where we kept all of our vegetables that we'd grown in our gardens 29:00and orchards. We had cattle. We had horses. One ran off with me and made it around the oval. (Laughter)

Little Thunder: That's a great story!

Harjo: The fish pond, my classmates would grab me by the feet and hands and throw me in about a hundred times. That was one of the things I was used to was getting thrown in the fish pond. We had a clinic over here, and there's a bridge that goes over there. Every time the students would get government eye glasses, they'd throw them in the fish pond. I had to spend two weeks in a clinic one 30:00time because I got aviary flu.

Little Thunder: Because they didn't like the glasses?

Harjo: They didn't like the glasses. They were big black--.

Little Thunder: They're not nice looking.

Harjo: Yeah. When you'd go across the bridge, you could see hundreds of pairs of glasses. (Laughter)

Little Thunder: That's great. Thank you so much for talking with me.

Harjo: I'm happy to because, like I said, I feel like our history needs to be retained and passed on to whoever, our children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, whoever is interested because it's very interesting history and I'm proud to be part of it. I'm blessed to be part of it. Every time I look out the window here, I see my old home ec. I never paid no attention. I'd be 31:00writing love notes or asleep or something. As a result, I'm not a good seamstress, and I'm not a very good cook. (Laughter)

Little Thunder: But you have other talents! (Laughter)

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