Oral history interview with George Miguel

Little Thunder: This is Julie Pearson-Little Thunder. Today is June 1, 2018. I work for the Oklahoma Oral History Research Program at Oklahoma State University, and I'm honored to interview President George Miguel of the Chilocco Alumni Association. You'll be president until next year. He's the Chilocco Class of 1960, Tohono O'odham [Tribe], and also a veteran, a serviceman who has been in the military, and I'll be asking you about your experiences at Chilocco and also in the military and a bit of what you've done since then. Where were you born, and where did you grow up?

Miguel: I was born in Sells, Arizona, and I grew up there up until--. I was probably fourteen years old when I came to Chilocco. The reason why I came was mostly because we didn't have high schools on our reservation at the time. 1:00Everybody went up through the eighth grade at home, but to go beyond the eighth grade, you had to go off to boarding school. I chose Chilocco because my grandfather actually went to school here way back in 1905. I think that's when he arrived here, not voluntarily. He was hog-tied and thrown in the back of a wagon and shipped up here. He spent the rest of his life here at Chilocco. He went to school here, and he went into the service from here. He was in the Army, came back, and he worked here. He married his teacher--.

Little Thunder: Worked on the campus?Miguel: On campus here, yeah, and he married his teacher! (Laughs)

Little Thunder: That's quite a story!

Miguel: Yeah, and right now they're both buried right here in Ark City right next to each other at the cemetery. I go visit there every chance I get.

Little Thunder: Were there any other people that you came with when you came?

Miguel: No, I came by myself. The reason why I came--in fact, I came in the middle of the year. I tried public school back home, but I just didn't like it. My mom asked me if I wanted to come to school here and stay with my grandfather because it was the middle of the year, so I didn't do my paperwork or anything. She said, "Just go up to Oklahoma and stay with your grandfather and go to school. Then maybe next year you can get into Chilocco," because I've always wanted to come to school at Chilocco because one of my older brothers came here, also. He's a half-brother, same mother, different father. He went to school here, too. This was during the Korean conflict. He was here, and he went to Korea from here. Anyway, we didn't know how to contact my grandfather. My mom 3:00said, "He's there and supposed to be at Chilocco," so they just shipped me up here. (Laughter) I just came up here.

Little Thunder: On the bus?

Miguel: On the Greyhound bus. It was quite an experience because I got off at Ark City at two o'clock in the morning, and the bus depot was closed, of course. This is wintertime; this is in January. There was snow outside and cold. I just simply got off the bus. I had a little, in one hand, a little bag that had a few clothes in there. I just simply got off the bus, and the bus took off with my luggage.

Little Thunder: With your luggage!

Miguel: My brother had told me that a lot of students hitchhiked. At that time, everybody used to hitchhike to get around. He said, "You could probably catch a ride from Ark City to the campus," but this was two o'clock in the morning. I 4:00started walking, and I said, "Better not. I'll freeze to death somewhere." Luckily, as I was heading south to head towards campus, I saw a little light there. It was just a small building, probably twelve by twelve. It had a little light. It was actually a little taxi stand. I walked over there and asked them if I could stay in there until the morning, then I'll start hitchhiking. They had a bench there and said, "Yeah, go ahead and sit down." He was nice enough to let me stay there, and I just sat there and went to sleep sitting on the bench. I didn't know that they could have brought me. I had some money to be able to pay for the cab fare to campus, but I didn't know that because it's crossing the state line. I figured they wouldn't be able to cross the state line, so I just didn't say anything.

Little Thunder: Bless your heart.

Miguel: So the next morning when the sun started coming up, I got on the road, 5:00and I caught a ride right away, the second car. This guy was a salesman. We were talking, and we missed the turn-off. We missed the arch. We ended up in Newkirk. He says, "I think we missed it, but I'll take you back." We turned around, and he brought me back. Finally, we saw the arch, so he dropped me off. Thanked him and started walking just a little ways. One of the--it turned out he was going to be one of our instructors because I was in agriculture, and he was one of the agricultural instructors. He picked me up on the road from the arch.

Little Thunder: As you came in through the arch.

Miguel: Yeah. He brought me over. He asked me where I wanted to go. I said, "I don't know. I'm looking for my grandfather." Nobody seemed to know, so he took me to Home Six. The advisor there said, "What do you want to do? Do you want to go to school here?" I said, "Yeah!" That was my first choice, anyway. He said, 6:00"Okay, we'll sign you up," so they registered me. I've been here ever since.

Little Thunder: Did you connect with your grandfather? He was on campus, right?

Miguel: Yeah, eventually, after I got settled in. Then they gave me some clothes, hand-me-downs. Finally about two weeks later, they finally found my luggage, and it was brought back here, shipped back here. About that time, about two weeks later, I finally found out where my grandfather was. By that time, he had retired and moved to Ark City. One weekend I went knocking on his door, find out who he was, so he brought me back to campus. Then he used to come out and visit.

Little Thunder: He must have been so surprised and happy.

Miguel: Yeah, he'd take me--we'd go to the basketball games here together, and then Sundays we'd just go for a drive and just talk. I always wanted to know 7:00about his history. One of these days I might--in fact, I'm trying to do research and find out as much as I can about him and how his travels, how he ended up here. At the time, I didn't really want to ask him personally because there's probably a lot of hurt. I didn't want to go there, so I just let him talk. He had a little farm right there on the state line. He bought a little, I think, a four-acre plot or something like that. He used to have milk cows. Sometimes I'd go work for him over there, cleaning the barn and helping milk the cows and stuff, so it was enjoyable while I was here. Then when I left, I didn't see him again. My mom always told him to come back home, back to Arizona, that he still had family there, but he said he felt like he didn't have anybody back home. 8:00That's why he stayed here. He forgot to speak the language, and yet I'm sure when he came here, he didn't speak English at all. Now he forgot the O'odham language. He just remembered a few words. Like I said, we'd go out and park, and he'd try to say a few words. Sometimes he'd mess it up because to change the tone just a little bit, it changes the word. Anyway, it was a good experience.

Little Thunder: So they welcomed you; they got you into classes. What were some of your favorite classes?

Miguel: I guess math. Well, actually the agriculture program was good because I like to work with my hands. I stayed here every summer and worked.

Little Thunder: Oh, you did? Was that program already available year-round?

Miguel: Yeah, so we stayed here. What would happen is that if you're in the 9:00agriculture program, you got a project calf to fatten up for show. If you stayed and worked the summer, you'd get an extra calf. In the fall I'd get two calves and raise them, and you get to keep the proceeds from that when you sell them. Plus, we did a lot of harvesting, and whatever we harvested we sold. Half of it would go to the school. Half would go to the program. Then the students get some part of that money, too, the harvest money. We didn't get it; we had a bank account. We used to have a little bank here on campus, so they used to put it in savings for us. If you ever needed money, you had to go through your dorm advisor and tell them what your needs are. If he approves it, you go to the little bank and draw it out, then go to Ark City and do your shopping. (Laughter) That was a great part of it. I always had money, but I always stayed 10:00until the last two weeks before school started. Then I'd go back home.

Little Thunder: I was wondering. You'd go home for two weeks.

Miguel: Yeah, for two weeks and visit.

Little Thunder: And you could pay for your own bus ticket at that point?

Miguel: Yeah, that was what was great about it. I was a little more independent.

Little Thunder: Was it hard when you just went home for two weeks? Was it hard to go back to Chilocco?

Miguel: Not really because by that--what was hard was when I first came because back home we had mountains, and you're used to--. That's how you tell your directions mostly. When I got here, it's all flat, and I really got disoriented. The sun was coming in the wrong place, in my mind, and it actually kind of made me sick there for a little bit, for about two weeks. It was a weird feeling because the sun was coming up in the wrong place. After about two weeks, I 11:00finally got to know where east is east and west is west. I finally got adjusted to the plains, but I missed the mountains. That was probably the hardest part. Once I got situated, it was home. I really liked it here, especially meeting all the people. Got a lot of my friends that I would go home with them for the holidays. Christmas, I'd spend with one of my friends in Tulsa one Christmas. I got to go to different places.

Little Thunder: That's nice, you got invited by your friends for holidays.

Miguel: Yeah, and I'd go to the powwows, different experiences for me. It was home to me, my other home. My family, to this day they joke to me about this being my second home. I came back; I got active in the alumni association. I think it was 2006, I believe it was, when I attended my first reunion in 12:00Albuquerque. That's when we had it in Albuquerque. I decided to participate, and lo and behold, I got elected to the board. I've been with the board ever since. I come four times a year and never missed a meeting.

Little Thunder: Yeah, it's a great way to come back.

Miguel: Then everybody wanted me to become president. I kind of didn't want to, but we'd got a good team. The things that I can't handle here, Dr. [Jim] Baker and the other team members can do, like all this on-the-job planning for every year. I'm not able to attend all those meetings, but we keep in touch by email or phone or all of that. I'm still the president. (Laughter)

Little Thunder: So going back to Chilocco a little bit, what were some of the details that you got that you remember that stand out?

Miguel: What I really liked was to hear the other languages. What really amazed me was--.

Little Thunder: And you were fluent because you had grown up--. That was your first language.

Miguel: Yeah, I was born--O'odham was my first language; English was the second language. I was fluent; I'm still fluent. I came here, and I used to like to listen to some of the others talk their language.

Little Thunder: Did you learn some of their vocabulary?

Miguel: Oh, yeah, you always learn. (Laughter) You always learn the bad words first! (Laughter) What really made me, his name was, his last name was Williamson. This other classmate of mine, in fact, John--they're Cherokee. They're both Cherokee. I used to listen to them talk about--. This William 14:00person, he didn't look Native, but, boy, he sure could speak that Cherokee. I used to like to hear them talk, so that was one of the great things I liked about hearing the different cultures. Sometimes you hear a lot of negativity about boarding schools, but it seemed like to me it was all positive. I did presentations back home. In fact, I got Alumni of the Year because I used to do motivational talks to the young people.

I got the Native American Alumni of the Year for Arizona State University in 2012 because of my involvement with trying to get young students, to get them 15:00motivated to either go to college or enhance their career. I always talk about--I do a presentation on Chilocco. In fact, I have it on a flash drive. Maybe I'll share it with you. For some reason, my presentation is really kind of leaning toward the military side; the stuff that I present is about the military. Anyway, when I start my presentation, I always start out with, "You 16:00read a lot about boarding schools and the bad parts." I'm not trying to whitewash. My presentation is just what I went through. It's my experience, and it wasn't that bad. To me, I didn't really have any bad experience. Seems like it was all positive. Maybe it was because of me having a positive attitude, maybe. I don't know.

Little Thunder: What were some of the teachers that you remember?

Miguel: Mr. [Frank] Quiring was actually not a teacher, but he was the dorm advisor. The teachers I think was Mr. [Leonard] Hathcoat because some of the teachers that we had there were actually alumni, also. They finished there, went and got their degrees, and came back and taught here. Kind of getting back to their culture, we weren't really required to do a lot of math. I had always 17:00wanted to go on to college, and it was always in the back of my mind. I used to do extra work. I took algebra and chemistry to put myself in a better position.

Little Thunder: You kind of got on the academic track.

Miguel: Right, yeah. The chemistry teacher, he impressed me pretty much. In fact, he was ex-military. He was a captain in the Army. He was one that really kind of impressed me, and I kind of liked his style of teaching. In fact, I got the chemistry student award for that year.

Little Thunder: Oh, that's neat!

Miguel: I guess that's what I liked to do. I always wanted to go a little harder--

Little Thunder: Wanted a higher education.

Miguel: --yeah, instead of just coasting along. I'd rather just meet some new challenges.

Little Thunder: So you knew the National Guard was there, and did you get involved--.

Miguel: Right. That's when I signed up. Ever since I was small, I was always gung-ho. I liked those military--the snap-to and being sharp. In fact, one of the BIA [Bureau of Indian Affairs] education specialists back home, he talked to me about, "Keep it up, and maybe one of these days you'll make it to West Point."

Little Thunder: Right, where they really emphasize grades and academics.

Miguel: I really thought about striving for that, but I didn't really get a chance. I was probably more focused on college at the time. I think if I had to 19:00do it over again, I think I probably would have just went straight in the military and be a career. I spent most of the rest of my time in Reserves. Back home, we didn't have a Guard unit close by, so they just put you on stand-by.

Little Thunder: So you enlisted after you got back home?Miguel: No, I enlisted here.

Little Thunder: Enlisted here.

Miguel: Yeah. I went to basic training in Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri. In fact, Jim and I, all of us went to Fort Leonard Wood.

Little Thunder: Oh, you were in basic training with Jim Baker?Miguel: Yeah. Then after that, I went to AIT training in Fort Jackson, South Carolina. Me and a friend of mine, we wanted to try out for the boxing team, so we made it. He was my best buddy. His name was Turner Silmon, and everybody called him Hoss because 20:00he was a hoss. (Laughter) Anyway, we tried out for the boxing team, and we made it. We spent the rest of our time--.

Little Thunder: You were on the Army boxing team?Miguel: Yeah, on the regimental boxing team in Fort Jackson.

Little Thunder: Had you boxed at Chilocco a little?

Miguel: No, they didn't have it at that time.

Little Thunder: They had cut the program already.

Miguel: Yeah. My buddy used to, (I shouldn't maybe say this) he used to sneak off and box with the Ponca City team, some of the locals.

Little Thunder: Stay in shape? (Laughter)

Miguel: Yeah.

Little Thunder: What was it like being at--had you ever been to Fort Leonard? Had you ever been in that area?

Miguel: No. I came so close. Last--what was it? A couple years ago, three or four years ago, (every year after the reunion, I kind of take a little vacation and work myself back home) my family came with me. From here, we went to 21:00Branson, Missouri, because I like country music, too. My family and I went to Branson. We stayed there a couple days, and then from Branson we went to Haskell [Indian Nations University] and toured Haskell. Then from there I wanted to see Kickapoo country, so we drove up north of Topeka up to Kickapoo land and came back. Came back to Wichita and then flew back home. After the last reunion, we went to Reno and then to Yellowstone National Park and Washington, just looking around.

Little Thunder: That's great. You use the reunion as a take-off point.

Miguel: Yeah, and after that, bring myself home. One year, I took the Amtrak to Dallas and San Antonio and came up that way to Tucson. This year, I'm going to 22:00the one that goes through the Rockies to come out at Reno. I have to go east and come back west on the Amtrak. It's already planned out.

Little Thunder: That'll be an adventure.

Miguel: Yeah. Chilocco's been good to me.

Little Thunder: So when you arrived, when you were in the Reserves then, what kinds of skills did you have, coming out of Chilocco, that helped you, do you think?

Miguel: I think the discipline. I think that's what really helped. That's what I kind of tell people back home. Seems like a lot of the younger generation, they don't take orders very well. Seems like they know it all. You try to tell them something, and they say, "Oh, I know, I know." To me, ever since from here, we took orders. It's just part of us growing up here. We knew it had to be done, 23:00and you just do it. I think that's probably the best thing that I learned here was discipline and that you can't be antisocial. It's not there.

Little Thunder: Was it helpful having other Chiloccoans in your unit?

Miguel: Yeah, that helped, too, because we were all still brothers. From Fort Leonard Wood, we kind of split up. I think Dr. Baker went to Fort Dix, New Jersey, and me and some of the others went down to South Carolina.

Little Thunder: But you got to box, basically the rest of that time that you served?

Miguel: Right, right.

Little Thunder: What was your most memorable match, I guess?

Miguel: We were talking with the ladies last night about when you meet people 24:00and they don't know that you're Native. They were sharing their stories, so I told them about the time that I was in Fort Jackson. I was working out, and this young kid came up to me. He says, "How are things in the old country?" I knew what he meant. He thought I was Asian--or something. I told him, "I guess Arizona is just about as old as any other place." (Laughter) I guess that's the old country.

Little Thunder: Your people have been around longer.

Miguel: We were laughing about that, that you can't really judge a book by its cover. You have to know who's inside. That was one of the good things. One thing that I didn't feel really comfortable was the discrimination in the South. At 25:00that time, you weren't allowed to go, if you were non-white, you were not allowed to go to the same places.

Little Thunder: The Jim Crow stuff that was going on, wow, yeah.

Miguel: That was the big hurt for me was not being--. In fact, I even experienced it in Fort Leonard Wood. They let us go at midnight, and I had forgotten my paperwork at my barracks. I had to leave the group, and I had to catch a cab back to my company area and pick up my paperwork. By the time I had got to town, everybody was gone. I tried to go into the restaurant. I had my uniform on. They said, "I'm sorry, we can't serve you." God, you know. Here I am 26:00in an American uniform, an American soldier, and they won't serve me.

Little Thunder: And this is 19--

Miguel: Sixty-one. That's the only thing that really sticks out in my mind. Other than that, the travel and everything was enjoyable. Got to learn a lot, see a lot.

Little Thunder: Yeah, great experiences. How did you get into higher education? What happened after you left the military?

Miguel: It was funny. When I was here, I kept trying to get into Arizona State. They had a scholarship for native Arizonans. I kept applying, kept applying, and they kept turning me down. "This is for Arizona Indians only." I said, "I'm an Arizona Indian. I just happened to go to school in Oklahoma." They turned me down, so I was actually going to go to school in Stillwater. By the time I 27:00graduated, I had me a good little nest egg from all the work from working here in summers. One of my instructors, in fact, the same guy, (Art Jones is his name) he's the one that kind of took me under his wing and took me down to ASU.

Little Thunder: Oh, he took you all the way down there?Miguel: Yeah, on his personal time, personal car. We toured the campus. One of our other agriculture students, Norman Little, he was actually there working for the college, for the university. He actually had a bunk out there in one of the barns because that 28:00was part of his job was to take care of the horses and stuff. Like in the old days, he had a bunk bed in the barn, and that's where he stayed. He said, "This is probably where you'll stay." I said, "Yeah, I don't mind. I like horses." Anyway, he took me down there, so I transferred all my money from here down to Stillwater, opened up a bank account. I was ready to go to school there. Here on the eleventh hour, I get a letter from ASU, saying that they finally accepted me. I closed down my bank account and threw everything in my car. At that time, I'd bought me a little car.

Little Thunder: You had a car.

Miguel: Then I went back home and started at ASU.

Little Thunder: What was your major?

Miguel: At that time, it was mechanical engineering because when I was here, I took that--. I forget what they call it, but it gives you your high end, as far as your interests.

Little Thunder: Oh, kind of aptitude test?Miguel: Yeah, aptitude test. I was 29:00strong in engineering, and I was strong in agriculture. I was going to be an agricultural engineer, and I was going to go to school at OSU. When I got home, I changed it to mechanical engineering. I dropped out after three semesters, and I went to work in construction. I really liked that, and that's been my trade ever since then. I was actually a carpenter for about thirty years. Meanwhile, I went to work for this company in Phoenix. They saw that I had some college, so they wanted to give me an opportunity to go back to school. They paid for my tuition and gave me time off from work to go attend classes. That's what I did, and that was my second stint at ASU.

Little Thunder: So you were still studying engineering in college, mechanical engineering?Miguel: Right.

Little Thunder: That would relate to construction.

Miguel: Right. That was in '76, I believe it was. That's when we had that economic crunch, so I got laid off. That's when I finally went home. I was gone from Sells for twenty years. I left in '55, and I finally moved back in '75. I stayed in construction as a construction--.

Little Thunder: For the tribe? Did you work for the tribe?

Miguel: No, just different contractors. It was kind of--some of it was through the tribe through our TERO, Tribal Employment Rights Office. I worked all over in Phoenix and southern Arizona and Tucson. When we opened our casinos, our tribe finally offered scholarship money to go to college. By that time, I was 31:00already in my late fifties. I said, "I'll try and see if I get it. If I do, I'll go back to school." I did, and lo and behold, I got my scholarship. I went back to ASU, and this is my third time at ASU. This time, they had a construction school there, too, so I just went right into--it's called Del E. Webb School of Construction. I went through that program. By that time, I was mature and hit the books, so I did real well.

Little Thunder: That degree would let you be the supervisor?Miguel: Manager, yeah, construction manager is what it's called. While I was there, I decided to go ahead and go for my master's, so I did. I have my master's in construction 32:00management from ASU.

Little Thunder: That's really neat.

Miguel: That has been my trade for about thirty-five years or more, is construction. I like to build.

Little Thunder: What a great story. How important is it for you to be involved with--. First of all, let's talk just veterans activities. Are you involved with any veterans organizations?

Miguel: Not back home, but here, yeah. I really try to. It's in my heart. I don't know. I just never really got involved. It's in me; it's in my heart.

Little Thunder: You've done service.

Miguel: I grew up with it. I'd like to, but then it seemed like my work at home, 33:00my job--. Plus, I'm still working. I work for the tribal college back home. I'm actually the department chair of occupational education. One of my purviews is apprenticeship and GED and anything that's got to do with the workforce development, so that takes up a lot of my time.

Little Thunder: How long have you had that position? -- How long have you been department chair?

Miguel: Probably about fourteen years. I actually got it right after I got my bachelor's. I took time off to go back and finish my master's, and then I went right back and went back to the same position. I started in '03. That's when I got my bachelor's. I thought I could do my master's and work at the same time, but it was very hard. I took time off and went back and finished my master's. 34:00Then I went back to the tribal college.

Little Thunder: So you're doing the academic part, but then you've also got the construction work. You actually have two jobs.

Miguel: Yeah. I have a contractor's license, so I do projects, too, on the side. We have a ranch, too, so that's why I said I'm very busy.

Little Thunder: Oh, yeah! What do you raise?

Miguel: Cattle, just cattle.

Little Thunder: How did your Chilocco agricultural experience help you with that?

Miguel: Oh, it just fit right in because that's how I grew up. Coming here and working with the horses and the cattle, it's just--.

Little Thunder: You worked with the Morgan horse program a little bit, or was 35:00that gone?

Miguel: I guess we didn't have that then. We had cattle and the horses. We'd break our own horses here at Chilocco, and that was good experience.

Little Thunder: Do you have any memories of breaking horses?

Miguel: Yeah. In fact, I think it was my senior year. I got my horse, and I pulled it too much this way. It fell, and it fell right on my foot and twisted my ankle. That was supposed to be my graduation, so I was limping around on crutches for the last two weeks. (Laughter) They told me I didn't really have to walk. I graduated, and I got my diploma in a roundabout way. (Laughter)

Little Thunder: That's a funny story. Why are the Chilocco reunions important to you?

Miguel: It's just reliving, I guess, reliving the friendship. Mostly it gets to be reliving the friendship, and it takes a lot of work. When I sit here and do all the stuff that we've accomplished and we need to do and get done, make sure everything comes out okay, it takes a lot of planning and a lot of meeting, a lot of dedication. None of us get paid. We all volunteer. Especially for somebody like me, I fly in four times a year. It's about money, but to me it's like giving back to the community. They've been good for me, so it's time for me to give back. I like it. We try to get our younger membership to step up and 37:00take over the lead because it seems like most of us are my age. Me and Dr. Baker, we were classmates. A lot of the board members now are pretty up in their years, and we'd like to hopefully get some of these newer, younger members interested and take over. To me, it's the friendship, the stories, the kinship. And it's really true: you hear it a lot that it's like brothers and sisters. I think that's exactly how I feel. It's great.

Little Thunder: You really hadn't been involved with the southwest chapter before 2006, huh?Miguel: No, before then, no.

Little Thunder: It was when you went to the Albuquerque meeting at Chilocco that you got involved.

Miguel: Yeah, that's when I got involved. In fact, at one time I was actually the president of the Southwest chapter. It was just before I got elected to this. I was president of the Southwest chapter, and when I got elected to the national, I gave that up so I could devote my time over here.

Little Thunder: Well, I know everybody is glad that you have this position. Is there anything that you would like to mention that we didn't talk about?

Miguel: No, but I think I want to kind of go back to my grandfather. I think it's how it all started. We wouldn't have known about Chilocco if it wasn't for my grandfather, his ties. All along, my family knew about Chilocco through him. 39:00Like I said, every time I meet people I try to tell them, "Send me anything you can on him. His name was Jose [Anton]." I'd like to gather as much information as I can and write a book about him.

Little Thunder: Right, his experience. Were there a lot of O'odham that actually got sent to Chilocco, or did it seem to be different directions?

Miguel: Not really a lot. When I was here, there was about six of us, I think. It dwindled down to about three. When I graduated, there was three of us then, not too many, but in the mid-ʼ70s they must have sent a bunch because there was more at that time than any other time, probably. I think they had--I talked to 40:00some of the members here, and they were asking about different ones. It was around '75 that they were here. There were, like, ten or twelve of them here, but it seemed like we never had more than four or five at one time. Most everybody went to Phoenix Indian School.

Little Thunder: Right, it's so much closer.

Miguel: Yeah, Phoenix and Sherman [Indian High School]. In fact, that's what they wanted to do was send me to Sherman, but I always wanted to go to Chilocco ever since I could remember.

Little Thunder: That's so interesting. And find your grandfather, and you did!

Miguel: Yeah, and I did. It's been a great experience.

Little Thunder: Well, thank you for taking time to talk with me today, George.

Miguel: Thank you.

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