Oral history interview with John Peacock

Little ThunderMy name is Julie Pearson-Little Thunder. Today is Thursday, December 16, 2016. December 15, that is. I'm interviewing John Peacock as part 1:00of the Chilocco interview series conducted by the Oklahoma Oral History Research Program at Oklahoma State University. John, you're Eastern Shawnee and Wyandot--

PeacockYes.

Little Thunder--(correct?) a 1969 Chilocco graduate.

PeacockYes.

Little ThunderYou spent six years in the Marine Corps and the Army before beginning your work with Indian Health Services in the mid-ʼ70s and joining the National Guard around that time. We'll be talking about some of your experiences and memories of Chilocco and your life in the service. Thank you for taking the time to talk with me.

PeacockThank you.

Little ThunderWhere were you born, and where did you grow up?

PeacockI was born in Claremore Indian hospital in 1951. I was raised in Miami by a single parent. I lasted here in Miami until 1965 when I went off to Chilocco.

Little ThunderWhat did your--was it your mom who raised you?

PeacockYes.

Little ThunderAnd what did she do, also, for a living?

PeacockShe worked in garment factories throughout Miami, Commerce Manufacturer, Burlington, Patterson, Glenbury's, before winding up in the ammunition factory in Parsons, Kansas, while I was going to Chilocco.

Little ThunderWhat was your--did you have any grandparents on either side?

PeacockMy grandparents that I knew were Amy Peacock. She was a Blue Jacket. She 2:00was sort of a single parent, too. Her husband died of pneumonia back in 1935. She raised five kids. Anyway, most of them, with the exception of one, all went to Chilocco. All went to Seneca Indian School and that regard.

Little ThunderWere you around Shawnee speakers at all growing up?

PeacockOther than my grandmother saying, "Pass the bread," you know, stuff like that, that's about it.

Little ThunderWhat schools did you go to before you attended Chilocco?

PeacockPershing School for three years, and then off to Washington out in 3:00northern part of Miami. Then the seventh and eighth grade, Will Rogers Junior High.

Little ThunderHow old were you when you went to Chilocco, then?

PeacockI was just turning thirteen. The reason why I went to Chilocco is because the academics or what have you, the town was sort of prejudiced, I felt. I mean, I had my little neighborhood "our gang." They were really good people and still are to this day. My mom talked me into going to Chilocco, and I almost flubbed 4:00that up my freshman year, but I hung tough, four years of it. I had my friends throughout the United States, twenty-three states and ninety-five different tribes. That's a blessing to me.

Little ThunderSo you had--there was kind of family history of people in your family on your grandma's side who'd gone to Chilocco?

PeacockYes.

Little ThunderWhat were your first impressions when you got there?

PeacockI was in the oldest dormitory that Chilocco had: Home Two. The assimilation between the Plains Indians versus the Navajos, and getting 5:00assimilated and trying to make friends with all tribes. We had our Oklahoma bunch, and there was some that hung out with Washingtons and people from Montana. The Navajos, they stayed to theirselves. It took probably three years to make friends with those.

Little ThunderAt home, too, it was a pretty good intertribal mix at home, too.

PeacockYes.

Little ThunderWhat was one of the hardest adjustments you had to make at Chilocco?

PeacockGetting into the freshman year, they stole my suitcase. It had my underwear, my socks, and a transistor radio. I had to write my mom because every 6:00time I wrote my mother I'd get an allowance, say like a dollar and a quarter. It took a little while for the mail to get to you. I wrote her, and I says, "I'm not getting accustomed to this place, and they're stealing my clothes." She wrote a nasty letter to the boys' guidance. They had a shakedown, and they found them. By the time I wrote her back, here's my mom and my aunt coming up to get me on Veterans Day. The guidance department just sort of said, "Go to town, talk it over. If you want to leave, you can leave." I did that. I says, "I'll hang 7:00tough for the semester, and then I'll hang tough until the end of the school year." I come home, and I was thinking I was going to enroll as a sophomore in Miami. I wound up getting a welcome letter, and I says, "I'm ready to go back to Chilocco." I went back to Chilocco in agriculture. I took ag when I first got my pig in my sophomore year. That was money. (Laughter) I stayed through the summers after my sophomore year, my junior year, and after I graduated. I still worked with--I started with Bureau of Indian Affairs then.

Little ThunderSo going back to getting your first pig, because you really hadn't been working around a farm at all prior to that, and you were responsible--. Did you name it?

PeacockNo, I didn't name it. I didn't name even my calves. You know, my junior year I had two calves, and my senior, I had two calves. That was money in my pocket.

Little ThunderOnce you sold your animals--

PeacockYes.

Little Thunder--at the end of the year, that money went to your account.

PeacockMy account. Half of it went to your account, and half of it went to you.

Little ThunderRight.

PeacockYou wasn't allowed to get your money, the other half, until you graduated or your class graduated. When I graduated, I had $946 out of my savings account, and I come home and bought a car.

Little ThunderThat's a pretty good little chunk. When you were on campus, who were some of your more memorable teachers?

PeacockMr. [Cleo] Wallace was sort of the administrative chief. He was a really influential--. Mrs. [Marie] Engelking, she was a big olʽ heavyset lady that taught international relations and, I guess, history. Mrs. Anquoe, Melva Anquoe, she was my freshman homeroom teacher. Those are some of them, but my ag instructors was the bigger part. Mr. [Claude] Livingston was the department 10:00head, Paul Michael, Joe Nunn, Mr. [Walter] Kelley. While I was working there, Mr. [Victor] Bushyhead, he taught me how to plow, use a tractor. He caught my foot in the three-point hitch on a John Deere tractor.

Little ThunderOh, my goodness.

PeacockEnded my baseball career. Those are some of the memorable events. Going to the State Line on weekends, having to trek probably about two and a half miles, or something like that, over the fields to this place called the State Line that was sort of a café and gas station, just to get away.

Little ThunderJust for an outing.

PeacockYeah, get a hamburger.

Little ThunderYou'd go, a bunch of you?

PeacockYes, that was sort of the memorable parts.

Little ThunderYou mentioned that you had some student teachers from OSU.

PeacockYes. They had a program that come in and interviewed us, talked to us (how would I say) cliques, who we hung around with and how we got along. Say like, even the guys from the Kiowas down around Lawton, they hung around together. Me being the only person from Ottawa County there, we hung around 12:00Poncas. To this day, like that, I have my Ponca brothers. I've got friends all over the United States now, so I'm blessed by that.

Little ThunderWhat do you remember about the food?

PeacockThe food? Here's the thing. My junior and senior year we would, at noontime we had ag, and we would get cleaned up. We'd go out and work in the fields in the mornings like that, (same way our senior year) and then come in. We'd get cleaned up, and we'd be twenty minutes into the lunch period. There was 13:00a lady called Mrs. [Vernis] Benton. That was her name. She was from around Ottawa County and what have you, before. She run the lunch counter, and she would not give seconds to the other people until all her ag boys were fed. Say like, we would get piles of food and drinking four glasses of milk, three pieces of bread with a lot of butter, then getting ready for a one o'clock class and falling asleep. (Laughter)

Little ThunderYou were in the right field of study, weren't you?

PeacockYes. (Laughter) Going to algebra II or wherever, Mr. [Henderson], I think 14:00it was. We would play tricks on each other. If we caught somebody falling asleep, we would tape them to the chair, tie them to their chair. We had an Eskimo person that was going to the same class, and he would take off his Wellington boots. We would put them outside the window, and then when the bell would ring for the changing of classes he'd be looking for his boots. Then, say like, you're trying to get up out of your chair, and you're tied to your chair. Some of the tricks that they would play on you, those are memorable.

Little ThunderSo how about your most memorable details?

PeacockOur details were where we had to perform a task, either cleaning the TV room, breakroom, hallways, the bathrooms, stuff like that. When we were seniors, a lot of us would stay in bed, and we were supposed to be up and going to the mess hall at six thirty in the morning. Some of us were still in bed. When the lady matrons would come through the rooms, we would jump up and jump in the closet. Mrs. [June] Kirkland was one of them that would say, "Too late! Got you!" We'd get extra details for that. The strange thing about Mrs. Kirkland, 16:00her husband was in welding. She had two sons. When she would come through, says, "I don't know why you guys jump in the closets because you ain't got anything I haven't seen before. I've got a husband and two boys at home." (Laughter) We used to be embarrassed in that regard.

Little ThunderLet's see. Were you aware of, like, some of the military activities on campus?

PeacockWe heard of the National Guard, but I was too young for that. A lot of the benefits and everything, we never heard they were getting paid for it.

Little ThunderRight, they were getting paid for their--. What was one of the toughest moments you experienced at the school?

PeacockToughest? Probably my freshman year. You'd get home, and, say like, some of my friends, the last ones (could I mention the name of the people?)--

Little ThunderYes.

Peacock--were the Noel sisters. Their brothers had graduated earlier. Anyway, they were getting ready to go home in March, I guess it was, two weeks before Easter. I says, "Please have your folks check me out so I could go home." They 18:00checked out and never did come back. Those two weeks were the hardest time of my life. I finally got home, and I didn't know whether I was going to go back to Chilocco or not. I hung tough, and I finished the school.

Little ThunderSo you didn't go with them, but you found another ride that way.

PeacockI used to get a ride down to Ponca City, and we'd take a bus from Ponca City to Tulsa and then back up to Miami. Then on Sundays, probably about four thirty in the afternoon, I'd take a Continental Trailways all the way to Ark[ansas] City, Kansas, and we'd get there about nine thirty at night. The 19:00crazy thing about it is, say like, you've got your laundry clean, you've got a big, big Sunday meal, and you got leftovers you could put in your suitcase and take back to school. When you'd get to the dormitory, probably about thirty minutes later, then, the matrons would smell the food. I mean Ernest Toppah and John Beaver were the world's worst about finding food, say like, you're feeding your roommates. That is some of the crazy things would go on. If you had money in your pocket, the matrons would run to town and get you a hamburger, but you'd 20:00have to buy them a hamburger too, some of the tricks.

Little ThunderNow, you were allowed to bring back food, but just everybody knew.

PeacockYeah, everybody knew that the food was here, especially the matrons.

Little ThunderThey wanted to share, too. (Laughs) After you left Chilocco, what decided you to--did you enlist in the military, or were you drafted?

PeacockI did enlist, but I started to go to Okmulgee Tech. I wanted to take diesel mechanics, but my mom talked me into taking accounting. My accounting 21:00problems related to that, I had the exact opposites of debits and credits. That was my downfall. On October 28, 1969, I went down and swore into the Marine Corps. Then I had a delayed entry. February of 1970 I went in the Marine Corps. In the meantime between the end of October and February, I went back to Chilocco and worked on the farm. I was in the men's club. They had a separate from the students. I drove my little car.

Little ThunderSo you were like an employee?

PeacockYeah, I was an employee for those few months. Then I went off to the Marine Corps for those three years.

Little ThunderWhere did you do your boot camp for the Marine Corps?

PeacockSan Diego, and I wound up--.

Little ThunderWhat was that like?

PeacockIt was rough. I didn't know if I was going to make it or not. Through prayer and due diligence, I just hung tough and made it through.

Little ThunderDo you think your experiences at Chilocco had an impact on the way you handled that boot camp experience?

PeacockSure didn't hurt. I had good friends, too. It's a blessing that I can say 23:00I went through it.

Little ThunderWere there any other Native recruits in your Marine Corps division?

PeacockThere was one classmate from Oregon that wound up in there. He come down with spinal meningitis, and I didn't see him after that. Anyway, they put us in isolation for a little while, for about a week. Then after that they really put us in the dirt.

Little ThunderSo what other kind of--what kind of specialized training did you get in the Marine Corps?

PeacockRadio repair. I wound up there in San Diego for about, oh, I think about 24:00four months before winding up in Twentynine Palms. I didn't even get to repair a radio. I wound up in radio telegraph and wire before a couple a months later I wound up in Yokosuka, Japan, working in a brig, honor guards, parades, you name it, and training throughout, watching prisoners. That was different, anyway.

Little ThunderFor sure. What were your impressions of Japan, I guess, when you got to off base?

PeacockI loved it. I loved it. We got away from the post. We got us an apartment, drank a lot of beer, sake, and stuff like that. We always did our 25:00duties. I was ready to come home after twenty-one months over there. When I got--.

Little ThunderDid you write back home?

PeacockYeah, I wrote occasionally like that. I come home after those twenty-one months. I was through with it. I thought about reenlisting. I could not go from one Marine barracks to another. Say like, McAlester, I wanted to go McAlester and come back home. They said, "No, you can't do that. We'd put you in California or North Carolina." I says, "No. No way." I come home and tried 26:00probably about five months. I had the green, still in my system, and I wound up going down to Fort Sill. I just couldn't get a job around Tulsa, like security in North Tulsa, no way, no way. I wound up in Fort Sill, and I went back into communications. I started out as a wireman.

Little ThunderThis time for the Army.

PeacockFor the Army. Then I wound up a com. chief for an artillery unit. I was there for twenty-one months before being shipped off to Germany for fifty--. I 27:00think I got tired of being in green after that, but I wound up in the National Guard. I was in so many different specialties: supply, armor, unit clerk, chaplain's assistant, administrative support--.

Little ThunderNow, was this in the Guard or was this--

PeacockThis was in the Guard.

Little ThunderOnce you joined the Guard, okay.

PeacockThere was times that I grew my hair long. Back in the Nixon era, they authorized wigs. I looked terrible, but it was the principle of the matter that I wore a wig. It looked like a bird's nest on top of your head.

Little ThunderBut you were able to keep your--.

PeacockYeah, but I sort of conformed. At times I cut my hair off and do various things. I got to the rank of staff sergeant. It didn't really hurt on my retirement in that regard.

Little ThunderNow, around this time, too, you began to work for Indian Health Service in the mid-ʼ70s?

PeacockYes.

Little ThunderHow did you end up going that way?

PeacockI thought about--after me and one of my buddies from West Virginia, we were thinking, you know, "When we go back home--." One of them, he was going to be a coalminer. I was going to go back home and go to school at Claremore Junior College. I wanted to work at Claremore Indian Hospital. That's roundabout ways 29:00of how it started. My friend Arby, up there at the top, (gestures) I've seen him this year for the first time since '75, '76.

Little ThunderThe one from West Virginia?

PeacockYeah. He come by and visited me. We're still in contact. He wound up going into Army Reserve, and he retired. Well, I retired out of Oklahoma Army National Guard. (Laughter) That was some of the highlights.

Little ThunderRight, right. So was it--when you finally quit doing the Guard, was that a transition?

PeacockNot really. I was ready to get out.

Little ThunderYou were ready then. (Laughs)

PeacockYeah. They always tell you, "Don't leave without your twenty-year letter." It took them twenty-one years and three months to give me my twenty-year letter.

Little ThunderNow, with Indian Health Service you went to several interesting places. I mean, you were in Ada and Claremore, but also Dallas, but also Albuquerque, Acoma, [and Gallup]?

PeacockAcoma, yes. [I was in Indian Health Service 1970 to 2013.]

Little ThunderWhat are one or two highlights from your travels, I guess, to those different places?

PeacockI wasn't familiar with New Mexico. Seemed like those two years with OTFM [Office of Trust Funds Management] in Albuquerque, that was great. Like with 31:00Acoma, there was three different tribes around there: the Cañoncito Navajos, the Acoma Pueblos, and the Lagunas. This was just a small little hospital, and I was a supply officer and housing officer there. I'm responsible for vehicles, plus the supplies coming and going, receiving, purchasing, stuff like that. That was really nice, but I had a terrible supervisor. Anyway, she was married to an Acoma there. I told her after those five years that one of us has got to leave. 32:00It was me. Almost the same scenario in Gallup. I had a lady supervisor that after so long like that I had to leave. I wound up in Dallas. I had the best supervisor. He was an old, salty Marine. His boss was terrible in my books. He was a Texas University grad. We had a few Oklahoma engineers around there. That was fun. We would always talk Big Twelve in that regard. It was just up the road 33:00from Oklahoma. I really enjoyed it down there.

Little ThunderIn your IHS service, did you run into many Chilocco classmates?

PeacockOff and on. I had friends with others that I acquired, and I'm blessed to this day that I still have them.

Little ThunderAre you a member of any Native veterans groups or color guards right now?

PeacockNo, I'm just sort of--. With my dialysis, it takes enough out of me. When my kids, if and when I see them, that's a good thing. Say like, the people 34:00around Miami that I knew, I come back for their reunions, especially with the class of '69. They come up here in 2009 for their forty-year reunion, and they acted like I was a lost sheep. It was such a transition from back in '65 where I told you that prejudice was prevalent. If your father did not work for BFGoodrich, you weren't part of the establishment or what have you. Say like, Miami when BFGoodrich closed down, it was such a transition. Coming back to 35:00Claremore, working, and then seeing some of them and saying, "Hey, my kids are going out there to that Indian Clinic now." I says, "I didn't know you were Indian," in that regard. I still have my friends from the old neighborhood, what's left of them. It's great being back home.

Little ThunderComing full circle there.

PeacockFull circle.

Little ThunderYou mentioned you stay in touch with some of your Army friends, too.

PeacockYes, I even had a Marine friend come up from Tacoma, Washington, come by. I have phone calls every now and then from an old retired sergeant major in 36:00Jacksonville, North Carolina. I had my company commander. This guy was--we were in the same unit. I hadn't seen him since '75, and he's living in Overland Park, Kansas, now. My emails, my Facebook, you know, that is some of the ways that I--.

Little ThunderWays that you stay in touch.

PeacockAnd I have brothers that have passed on, adopted brothers. To accept their kids as my own, that's some of the blessings that I have.

Little ThunderThat's special. Do you attend the Chilocco reunions?

PeacockYes.

Little ThunderWhy are they important to you?

PeacockThey're just as important as life, in my means. My cousin from Bloomfield, Missouri, comes over, and we go together. It's great. Sometimes you see some you didn't see the year before. It's getting fewer and fewer, but I enjoy it. I'm just amazed by some of the people that come as far as Florida, Washington, Idaho, Montana. Chilocco has tried to reach out to have their 38:00reunion in Albuquerque a couple times. Durant, Tulsa, they used to flip flop between there and Oklahoma City. Go wherever you can. That's what I do.

Little ThunderHow did your time at Chilocco impact you personally?

PeacockPersonally? Just say that it was great. I mean, I wouldn't ever think about not doing it again. Those people, the employees, the teachers, I have such great friendship. It's a blessing.

Little ThunderWhat made Chilocco unique in your mind from other public school experiences? Some of those things are obvious, but maybe some things that we haven't mentioned.

PeacockYou didn't have your mom telling you to get up, get out, and go to school like that. (Laughter) You had matrons, and you had classmates. You had to at least share the same responsibilities like keeping your room clean. If you didn't, you got a detail. Those were the exciting portions. Or cleaning the TV room, white tile floors, and having to move all the chairs away and spilling 40:00cans of the Navajos' chewing Skoal. Or picking up pinyon seeds. (Laughter) Those were two of the things that I did not like about the Navajos. We had our own faults. We smoked cigarettes. Some of the activities we shouldn't mention, nighthawking, rendezvousing with girls. I always said that I never did nighthawk because I was afraid of that security dog, you know that big olʽ German Shepherd. My luck, I would get caught, so I was sweet and innocent in those regards.

Little ThunderIs there anything else you'd like people to know or remember about Chilocco?

PeacockChilocco was a great experience for me. I've got friends, like I said, from all over the United States. The matrons, the teachers, the department heads, you know, all those things I really enjoyed. If I was to do it again, I would.

Little ThunderAnything else we should talk about that we haven't mentioned?

PeacockOh, no, I don't think so. (Laughter)

Little ThunderThank you very much for your time today, John.

PeacockThank you.

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