Oral history interview with Dean Hudson

MilliganThis is Sarah Milligan with the Oklahoma Oral History Research Program. Today's date is May 28, 2016. I'm at the Chilocco reunion at the Chilocco Indian School campus. I'm here talking with Dean Hudson, and we're doing this for the veterans history project for the Chilocco alumni board. That's about as formal it's going to get. Maybe tell me a little bit about where you're from, who your parents--sort of who makes up your family. Then we'll move from there.

HudsonI'm from Smithville originally, Smithville, Oklahoma. Mom and Dad are Dixon and Sarah Hudson. Had a large family.

MilliganHow large? Like your siblings, you had a lot of siblings?

HudsonThirteen of us.

MilliganWhoa!

HudsonWe've lost three of them, one about a month ago, so we're down a little 1:00bit now. I came here, Chilocco, in '58.

MilliganHow old were you when you came here?

HudsonI was fifteen. Stayed until I graduated, '62.

MilliganSo you were here essentially for, like, those four years in high school would've been.

HudsonAbout three and a half years. Graduated and joined the service that July of '62.

MilliganOkay, let me ask you. What brought you to Chilocco?

HudsonI had brothers and cousins that went here. They had football here, and 2:00they didn't have it where I was at. (Laughs) I played a lot of sports. That's what kind of got me up here.

MilliganSo where were you? Were you in school in--

HudsonSmithville.

Milligan--in Smithville before you came?

HudsonI finished junior high there, eighth grade. Then I came up here as a freshman.

MilliganSo was it your choice to come up here, then?

HudsonYeah, it was my choice. They didn't have to send me. (Laughter) ... I heard about Chilocco, and my brother went here. They played football, my cousins. That's what kind of got me to come, and I wanted to get away from Smithville. Ain't nothing in Smithville. I kind of liked it here.

MilliganWhat did you like about it here?

HudsonLike I said, they had about all the sports you want to play, could play. 3:00Different people we met, mostly all Indians.

MilliganWas that different from where you went to school in Smithville?

HudsonYeah, it was a public school. Like I said, there was not too much down there. I always wanted to see what the other side looked like. I come out. I never gone back to stay.

MilliganNo? You never went back?

HudsonI went back (I'd go back and forth) but never stayed. Been coming and going since I got out of here. I went in the service, and I got out of the service. I went back to Colorado and went to school for a little bit. Quit that and just stayed out there. My bunch is out there now, kids and grandkids.

MilliganAre the rest of your siblings spread out, or are they still around here?

HudsonI got a brother in Florida. They're, most of them, in Oklahoma, Arkansas.

MilliganTell me about--you went to Chilocco. You got done in '62, and you immediately enlisted. Were you--what made you decide to do that?

HudsonVietnam was going on right then, and I had brothers and cousins that were over there. I didn't know what it was like. It's just a war; do my share.

MilliganSo it sounds like you enlisted because you thought there was someplace 5:00you needed to be, something you needed to be a part of.

HudsonLike I said, I had a scholarship offer to go to Ark City junior college or Wichita State to try out. I don't know. I didn't know anything about it then. I just--and I knew I could do that in the service, too.

MilliganGo to school you mean? Get some education?

HudsonPlay ball.

MilliganOh, I got it.

HudsonThen they pay you nothing. You had training. I went in the service. What I thought was the easiest, Marines. I was going to go in the Marines, and I didn't want to go to Vietnam, either. I don't know whether I would've went over there or not.

MilliganWhen you enlisted, what did you join then?

HudsonAir Force.

MilliganYou joined the Air Force. So what made you join the Air Force?

HudsonI had--my family, we got all that covered. I had a brother and a sister that was in the Air Force. Had two brothers in the Navy, my dad was in the Army, and I had a brother in the Marines. I talked to my uncle about that, and he said, "You better go into something where you won't be on the infantry." I took that advice and joined the Air Force.

MilliganWhen you joined, what happened? Where'd you go to basic and--

HudsonYeah, basic in San Antonio, Lackland Air Force Base. Now that I finished basic, I just went five weeks, and they sent me to school for, I think it was, 7:00eight weeks to Amarillo. Went to training there for, I don't know, about three months, I think, for supply clerk. Then after I finished that, they sent me George Air Force Base in California, and I was there about a year and a half and went to Alaska. Spent my last hitch up there. That's when I come back home for a little bit, and then I went to Colorado.

Milligan So what was--.

Hudson I like Colorado out there.

MilliganDid you like Colorado?

HudsonYeah.

MilliganWas that the first time you'd been out there is when you--

Hudson No, I went out there when I was a sophomore, I think.

MilliganWhat did you do out there when you were a sophomore?

HudsonI went out there with a friend of mine. He lives out there. Rodeoed a 8:00little bit.

MilliganDid you?

HudsonYeah.

MilliganWhat got you interested in rodeoing? That's sort of--it's not football.

HudsonNo, it's kind of a rough sport. I just got into it. I always kind of liked it anyway because it was high school. I tried a few things, you know. Tried bull riding. When I got out of the service, I went back out there, and I started bulldogging. I did it for, I don't know--that was in '68, '70, somewhere in there. It's been a while ago. I bulldogged until '98, I think '98,'99, somewhere 9:00along there.

MilliganThat's, like, thirty years.

HudsonA good while. I just kind of did it on my own. I didn't go, you know, learn. I should've learned, but I just played. (Laughs)

MilliganDid you compete?

HudsonYeah, I competed all over, like Indian Association. Oklahoma, in '82, I think, in Oklahoma I was reserve champion steer wrestler. I think it was in '82. Like I said, it's been a while. I rode here, New Mexico, Arizona.

MilliganWhat got you interested in doing that?

HudsonJust playing, you know.

MilliganDid you do it for a living?

HudsonI did for a while. I made money for a while, but it's a young man's game. When I got a little older I joined the PRCA.

MilliganWhat's the PRCA?

HudsonProfession Rodeo Cowboy Association, senior. There's forty and up, fifty and up, and I joined fifty and up. I was fifty years old.

MilliganAnd you were still doing it. Was it hard to get into?

HudsonNo. All you had to do is say, "I want to," pay your dues. I went to the national finals a couple of times. It was more fun than anything. You don't make no living at it. Some of them do because they work at it. I'd hold a job, and 11:00they'd let me go when I wanted to go.

MilliganSo what did you for a job while you were doing that?

HudsonI worked maintenance for the Southern Utes in Ignacio, Colorado. I had a good boss. He told me one time--I told him what I was doing. I wasn't no real technical job, mostly just keeping things up and going. He said, "Your job will still be here when you get back." Sometimes I'd be gone about a week, not that often, though. If I had a long way to go somewhere I wanted to go to, I'd go.

MilliganThat's a pretty good gig.

HudsonIt was. That's why I stayed out there, I guess. They let me go and let me 12:00play. I did it for a long time.

MilliganSo before you did that--so that was two years after you got--that you were in the Air Force for four years, right, '62 to '66? So I just want to make sure I understand. A lot of it, you were doing training most of the time, or you were going from base to base. What was your job? What was your role while you were in the military?

HudsonIt changed. I went in there as a Organizational Supply Specialist. They changed it to Inventory, so that's what I had was inventory and work in the warehouse, counting screws and everything else.

MilliganIs that what you wanted to do?

HudsonWell, they give you a test when you go in there. I took until where I had 13:00my highest score, and that's where they put me. I didn't want to be a cook. General field, they put you about anywhere. I was administrative field, so they stuck me in that, supply clerk. I worked there. It was, like, filling work orders and stuff from when I was in California. When I was in Alaska we had to keep up all the officers' barracks and where they--. I guess a lot of them come in there and stay a couple days and go on or stop over, whatever. That's what we did up there. Pretty cold up there.

MilliganWhere were you in Alaska?

HudsonAnchorage.

MilliganYou were in the big city.

HudsonYeah, Elmendorf Air Force Base is right there.

MilliganI wasn't sure where it was situated.

HudsonYeah, it's right out at the edge of town now, out of town.

MilliganSo you basically went from Chilocco to Texas to California to Georgia? Is that right?

HudsonYeah, went straight to--

MilliganAnd Alaska.

Hudson--Alaska. Yeah, George Air Force Base was in Victorville, California. That's where I was at.

MilliganOh, that's what it was. So what'd you think when they sent you, started sending you all these places, because you were late teens, right, late teens, early twenties, during that time period?

HudsonNineteen, I think I was nineteen. It was something new to me so I just expected what was like a job, you know. Just go on and go to work. In the Air 15:00Force that's the way it was. You get up and go to work every day.

MilliganWas it hard to adjust to the military lifestyle after leaving Chilocco?

HudsonNo, because I'd been away from home for most of my life. It was like coming up here, same thing. Stay in a dorm, barracks, and go to work.

MilliganDid you feel like you were maybe more prepared than some of your other people that went at the same time as you?

HudsonYeah. We had a lot of them that couldn't.-- I guess the instructor's after you all the time making you do this, do that. They do that quite a bit in there but mostly in training. When you go to work out there it's just like another 16:00job. You just do your job.

MilliganYou just do it. Were there other American Indians with you while you were out in base or these other places?

HudsonThere were some. I don't remember. I seen several of them that I went to school with. When I was in Alaska, there was a guy I played football with here. He come in. I was getting out in six months, and he just now got there. Good to see him.

MilliganYeah, other people from Oklahoma.

HudsonYeah, he was our quarterback when I played, I think when I was a junior here. He didn't go in until after I did.

MilliganSo how was--you said you were in Alaska for a while, too. Was that a big 17:00change for you, or what was that like living up there?

HudsonOh, it was. It was cold. (Laughter)

MilliganI guess the weather's drastically different.

HudsonThat's the one thing I noticed that was a lot different. Like I say, on base they have a lot of sports there. Went everywhere. I was in California. I ran track here. I got in there and run track in the service, and they sent me to Texas a couple times for track meets, Air Force Worldwide. I got into volleyball. We played in Las Vegas. I didn't know how to play very good then, 18:00but I got to Alaska and had the guy show us. Got me out on the court again, and I made their team. We won quite a bit up there, all-service tournament. We won, base. They was going to send us to Boston for Worldwide. They didn't want us to go, so we didn't get to go.

MilliganWhy didn't they want--who didn't want you to go?

HudsonThe base commander.

MilliganSo you stayed on base.

HudsonSo we had to stay on base. (Laughs) But they sent a lot of, you know, like, softball, basketball teams to--. I didn't play basketball up here except on intramurals and stuff like that. I didn't get to run track because there wasn't no track up there. I didn't stay in very good shape, anyway.

MilliganWhile you were up there?

HudsonYeah.

MilliganWhy's that?

HudsonI didn't like to run too much up there. No place to run. You can go anywhere, but I was getting a little older then.

MilliganLike in your mid-twenties.

HudsonYeah, (Laughter) not like now.

MilliganI wonder this, too, because you mentioned part of the reason why you enlisted because you knew Vietnam was going on and probably guessed you were going to have to do something.

Hudson Yeah, I was going to have to go in the Army. I think they had me 1-A or, yeah, I think it was 1-A.

Milligan For the draft you mean?

HudsonYeah, for the draft. I wanted to make the choice instead of them. That's why I talked to my uncle. He said, "Anywhere that you won't have to get in the infantry," because he was in the infantry in World War II.

MilliganI was going to ask if he or your dad were in World War II.

HudsonYeah, my dad was, too, and he was.

MilliganThey said, "Don't go in the front."

HudsonYeah.

MilliganSo were you surprised when you didn't get deployed over there the four years you were in?

HudsonNo, I didn't. It didn't make no difference to me. If I had to go I'd go, but I didn't have to go because I had a brother, two brothers, like I said, I had two brothers was over there.

MilliganYeah. I'm trying to think when this time, when this was, all the, oh, the Vietnam War being covered so closely by the media, being able to see it all the time.

HudsonAll the time, it was all in the news. Every ten o'clock news, there was something on it.

MilliganI don't know. Were you all aware of that while you were on base? Is that 21:00something you paid attention to?

Hudson Yeah. I had a cousin, he went to school here, too. He was over there. Oh, I mean this guy was a war guy. He was decorated all over. He went over about three times, I think, and he came back every time.

MilliganThose are the tough ones.

HudsonSome were lucky like that. Like I say, he was kind of crazy. (Laughter)

MilliganWhen you finally made it to Colorado and you decided to stay there, were there other groups or anything? Were there veteran groups or military groups that you--

HudsonYeah, on the base--I mean on the travel--. It's a reservation there. They 22:00got some, but I've never been in. I went to the first meeting, and I could see right then, too political.

MilliganYeah, tell me how it was political.

HudsonIt was mostly for them, and I was an outsider.

MilliganIt was mostly for the--

HudsonYeah, for the tribe--

Milligan--the tribe that was there.

Hudson--for their own people there.

MilliganI got it.

HudsonI didn't want to get in it, so I stayed out. I hadn't been into any veterans association or anything. They just know I was in the service. That's all. Did my thing, got out.

MilliganYou're back at Chilocco now. Is this your first reunion back, or do you come back for these fairly often?

HudsonNo, I come back about every year.

MilliganWhat brings you back?

HudsonIt's somewhere I grew up. Did a lot of growing up here.

MilliganMaybe can we talk a little bit about, like, what was a day-to-day life 23:00while you were at Chilocco? What is it that you all did? What was your routine?

HudsonMostly it was on weekends you had a detail you had to do. You had one every day, but I was one of those lazy guys. I took band, and I had to go practice in the band first thing in the morning. Didn't have to work. (Laughs)

MilliganIs that the reason why you took band?

HudsonMostly. (Laughter) Then in the afternoons, I think, I played sports. Didn't have to work.

MilliganDid you all socialize much with other students or the girls?

HudsonYeah, girls. Everybody had their group.

MilliganWho was in groups?

HudsonThere was--it was just everybody, range of friends, and liked things like they like.

MilliganWas it, like, sports hung out with sports, or dorms hung out with dorms, or was it split down tribal affiliations or anything like that?

HudsonSome of it, and it was just the grades mostly, whatever grade you was in. I worked out on a farm because I took agriculture. I liked it because they had the horses out there. (Laughs)

MilliganYeah, they had the fancy horses then, right?

HudsonYeah, they had the Morgan horses there, good Morgan horses.

MilliganRight. Is that what you thought you were going to do was work with animals, like, large animals?

HudsonLike I said, I liked them. They let us ride them, too.

MilliganHad you been doing much of that before you came to Chilocco? Did you have experience with horses?

HudsonYeah, we had a horse. Just had one olʽ horse I used to ride all the time. 25:00Down there, there wasn't much. It was way in the woods.

MilliganChilocco's not exactly in prime urban space.

HudsonYeah, but there's a lot of people here, close.

MilliganThat's true. You said that you didn't--once you got here you never went back down home to stay. What did you do during the summers?

HudsonI'd go back there and have to go to work, do what I could. Then if you ain't got no vehicle down there, boy, you're stuck because it's deep woods. (Laughs) There's a lot of fishing.

MilliganWas that something you enjoyed then?

HudsonYeah, I kind of liked that.

MilliganDid you fish much here when you were in Chilocco out at the--

HudsonNo, one or two times I went fishing. I seen a guy out there a while ago 26:00catching fish.

MilliganThat's what made me think about it. I saw someone out there. I think they were excited the gates were open.

HudsonYeah, I stopped and talked to him. He said he was out here. I guess his dad worked out here or something. He said he was Choctaw, too.

MilliganDid you know a lot of people from your area of the state when you came up here for school or other Choctaws?

HudsonSome of them I knew. There weren't that many.

MilliganWhat about your siblings? Did you see them very often?

HudsonYeah, I had a brother here. He was here the same time I was.

MilliganWere you all in the same dorm or just--

HudsonYeah. I had a sister come after I left. She graduated--gee, I don't know 27:00when that was. A lot of water under the bridge since then.

MilliganA lot of water under the bridge. I wonder, if you had thirteen kids in your family, what did the other kids do? Did they decide to stay down there?

HudsonYeah, they stayed down there. Some finished. Most of them finished except--well, they all finished now. They all went to public school. They didn't want to get away from home.

MilliganDid you have any favorite classes or any favorite teachers while you were up here?

HudsonOh, yeah.

MilliganWell, what were they? (Laughter)

HudsonI can't think of his name. Sanders. He was my favorite teacher.

MilliganWhy'd you like him?

HudsonHe was my junior high football coach. He coached football. He was like me. 28:00He was green at it. (Laughs) It was a good class. He was a easy going guy. Didn't yell at you, let you sleep in class.

MilliganOh, no wonder. (Laughter) It seems like the things I hear about students that went to Chilocco, it seems like they had some, not discipline but some serious regimen. There was--.

HudsonThere was a lot of them that way. Some of them were forced up.

MilliganBut once they got here it seems like you had everything scheduled out. You either, like you said, you had work detail--.

HudsonThey had records and everything where they--some of them were sent here through courts and stuff like that. There was a lot of volunteers. Like I said, 29:00I was wanting to get away from home. I knew there was something out there besides what I knew over there. It would always be there.

MilliganI think that's pretty common, too, isn't it? So tell me a little bit more about your rodeo. I'm curious how you got into doing that.

HudsonI had a lot of friends that did it out there. I got one, traveled with him all over reservations. He had a job, too, so he didn't go far. He'd have to go weekends, set things up where you could be there on the weekend and back home.

MilliganI see.

HudsonThere's a lot of local shows they have and got in. I started riding bulls first.

MilliganSo how did someone convince you to get on a bull?

HudsonI always kind of liked it. (Laughs)

MilliganReally?

HudsonYeah, when I was small we used to ride calves and stuff like that.

MilliganThere's a difference between a calf and a bull.

HudsonWhen you get older you can't ride calves. (Laughter)

MilliganAnd size and ferocity.

HudsonYou had a chance to make a little money. I never made very much money in bulldogging. I remember that. Made a lot more in bulldogging than I did this.

MilliganHow long did you do bull riding then, because I know how long you did bulldogging?

HudsonWhen I was in the service I didn't do anything. When I got out, well, I started up again. I didn't do it very long. I wasn't the rider I thought I was.

MilliganWhat made you decide that?

HudsonNobody rode out there. They was ropers and bulldoggers and horses. No practice, so I just started doing that. I just learned bulldogging--.

MilliganYou said earlier that you, in retrospect it sounds like you think you should've gotten someone to teach you.

HudsonYeah, should've learned how to do it right. I watch them on TV now. Boy, them guys are good. They know how to do it. My brother went to a school.

MilliganWent to school for that, for bulldogging?

HudsonBulldogging, yeah, out in Arizona, but he never did go down the road like I did. Having good horses is the main thing. I got some good horses.

MilliganAre you still doing it now?

HudsonNo.

MilliganI thought you retired from competing, but maybe--.

HudsonI give it up, got rid of everything. I quit about twenty years ago, something like that. Got smart. (Laughs) I had a horn run in my leg and tore my shoulder up. It's fun, but if you don't do it right it's rough. You get hurt quite a bit.

MilliganSo was that your only big injury was having a--. I mean, not that that is not enough. Horn through your leg is plenty, but I'm curious.

HudsonNo--I had one stuck my gut, but he didn't puncture me. I got away. I had one that went in my leg. I forgot how many stitches they stuck in there. That 33:00nurse said they quit counting when it got to twenty-three or something like that. Then I tore this shoulder up. I had pulled ligaments and stuff like that about everywhere.

MilliganBut you kept doing it.

HudsonYeah, I did it. You just heal up. Like I said, I had a job that wasn't real demanding. I learned a lot, though.

MilliganYeah, and you watch that. You got to have some--you got to be good.

HudsonGot to want to.

MilliganGot to want to. That's definitely--you definitely got to want to. What do you enjoy about coming back to Chilocco reunions, then?

HudsonSeeing old friends.

MilliganDo a lot of your classmates come back every year, then?

HudsonYeah, there's some, the ones who's still here. A lot of them gone now. A lot of them can't afford to come, I guess, because they don't come. I couldn't afford it either, but I come.

MilliganYou drive down?

HudsonYeah, I drove.

MilliganThere's a lot of people, a lot of people that still show up, and I know it changes. I don't know. So do you consider this more your home than other places, then, from your youth?

HudsonProbably.

MilliganDo you still make it--when you come down to the Chilocco reunion, do you go around and see the rest of your family that are still in Oklahoma?

HudsonSmithville?

MilliganYeah, I didn't know if they were all still down there or if they were spread around.

HudsonYeah, some of them. We got a home down there.

MilliganOh, you still do?

Hudson Yeah, so I go down there quite a bit but not this time. I got to go back, 35:00and I will be back in July or whenever. There's a reunion down there in July, so I'll go back down there.

Milligan A family reunion?

Hudson Yes.

MilliganWow.

HudsonYeah, we got a lot of family spread out all over.

MilliganThirteen kids will do that.

Hudson Yeah. (Laughter)

MilliganSo how many kids do you have? I assume you have kids because you said you had family in Colorado.

HudsonI have three at home. Well, they're all still there. I have two boys and two girls. They're all working except one, I guess. Grandkids, great-grandkids. Got me going all the time.

MilliganI bet that's true.

HudsonI got three great-granddaughters.

MilliganDo you really? Wow. So your kids or your grandkids or your--I don't know 36:00how old your great-grandkids are. Do they ask you about going to school in an Indian school, or are they at the point where they're not interested?

HudsonThey just know about it. That's all. They don't know what it's like being away from home. Sometimes we want to go home.

MilliganWere you homesick whenever you first came up here?

HudsonNo, I didn't get that. Too many different people and made a lot of friends.

MilliganWhat home were you in when you first got here, which of the buildings?

HudsonTwo.

MilliganYou were in Home Two, the big one.

HudsonYeah, Home Two was--

MilliganThe original building?

HudsonYeah, the one that's not there now.

MilliganYeah, that one.

HudsonHome Two, Home One, and Home Six. Home Six is the end one down there. Senior year, that's where I was at.

MilliganI don't know, there's a--do you have any photos or anything out here?

HudsonI got my name on a plaque out there. I seen it.

MilliganWhich plaque?

HudsonInspirational basketball player of the year that Kiwanis Club gives in Ark City. Has my cousin's name on there, too.

MilliganReally? I'll have to go look at it. There's a lot of trophies over there, a lot of basketball stuff, too. What was your favorite sport while you were here, then?

HudsonFootball.

MilliganIt was football. So did you ever regret not going on to take that scholarship?

HudsonI don't know. Like I said, I was pretty green, and I didn't know--I know I had to work, but I didn't--. I ain't going to lie. I thought about getting 38:00married out of here. That didn't work out. I knew I couldn't do that and go to school.

MilliganGet married and go to school?

HudsonYeah. They wanted me to try out at Wichita State then for track, and football over here at Ark City junior college. I thought about going to Wichita because I knew it'd be a lot easier. Like I said, I didn't know how I could do that. I imagine they would've helped me, but I didn't. I said, "Well, I know they'll pay me in the service." I went in the service.

MilliganWhen you decided to join the service, at that point did you still think you might be getting married and that you'd need that income, or was that after 39:00it didn't work out?

HudsonYeah, that was the plan, and it didn't work out.

MilliganBut you still went in the Air Force?

HudsonI was in there then.

MilliganYou were already there?

HudsonYeah.

Milligan Got it.

HudsonJust did my thing, got out of there.

MilliganYeah, you went in for four years and got done.

HudsonThree years, eleven months, twenty-one days. (Laughter)

MilliganI know I'm never surprised when people can remember that countdown. So I don't know. You got anything that you want to share specifically about while you were here or things that you--. I mean, let me put it this way. Your kids and your grandkids that know that you came here but aren't necessarily asking 40:00questions about what it was like, is there anything you want them to know or think that they'd be interested in?

HudsonI want to bring them over sometime, get them together, show them where it was at. I'm seventy-three now.

MilliganYou think they'll come?

HudsonYeah, my daughter, she's ready to come, but they're kind of like me. I guess they're playing ball. I think they're down in Gallup now. They play a lot of softball. My son, my grandson there, they have a celebration going on right there now called Bear Dance, and they've got to do their thing over there. He's a computer guy and trying to raise a kid now.

MilliganMakes you busy. So if you could get them down here what would you show them?

HudsonI'd show them where the football field, track, where everything was. The barns, can't get out there anymore, but it's out there I guess.

MilliganThe barns that were down there by the cemetery?

HudsonOut that way, yeah.

MilliganAnd the football field kind of out there, too, it's kind of still standing.

HudsonIt was that way when I was here. (Laughter) I just want to show them where I went to school and stuff like that. They were pretty good ballplayers. My daughter was.

MilliganIn softball primarily, then?

HudsonYeah, basketball. My son, he was a bowler. He bowled.

MilliganReally?

HudsonYeah, he was a good one. He kind of got a little older. He's forty-three 42:00now. He's kind of got a little stiff, so he's not quite as good as he used to be. I bowl, too. Wintertime I bowl. Me and my daughter got into Colorado La Plata County bowling association. What'd you call them?

MilliganThe league?

HudsonYeah, we bowled all that time, but--.

MilliganOh, like the hall of fame?

HudsonHall of fame, yeah.

MilliganAll right! So did you trade in bulldogging for bowling?

HudsonYeah, pretty much. Something going on all the time.

MilliganYeah, I don't see you sitting still for very long.

HudsonI shot pretty good, too. We got a new bowling alley there. I say it's new, 43:00when it first opened up. My son shot 300 twice. I shot 290 twice. I shot a 776. That's pretty good shooting.

MilliganThat sounds like it to me.

HudsonTried to shoot 800, but couldn't shoot no 800. That's pretty good, though.

MilliganThat's pretty crazy.

HudsonI averaged one year, averaged 217.

MilliganSo are you competitive, then?

HudsonI was.

Milligan Do you like to compete in anything with people, like with your sports and stuff?

HudsonYeah, I like playing the good guys and see if I can beat them. That's like 44:00anything. If you play, you got to put out when you go out there. You got to compete. That's what I like to do. Had a lot of fun, though. It's a lot of fun. If you make it, like, get too serious with it, it's more like work. Sometimes you got to be there, though. I liked it.

MilliganThat sounds like you liked to--you had a wide range of interests--

HudsonYeah, I did everything.

Milligan--over the years, yes.

HudsonBeen there done that.

MilliganI'm trying to think if there's anything else we need to cover. Is there anything else you want to share because we're going to send a copy of this to you, and you can give it to your kids if they want it. Is there anything else 45:00you want--.

HudsonNah, that's the only things they need to know. (Laughter)

MilliganI like the fact that you're not going to lie and say there's nothing else, but just, "That's all they need to know." Hopefully you can bring them back next year, at least one or two of them.

HudsonYeah, I'm going to try and get them together. Good Lord willing and the creek don't rise, well, I'll try to bring them all over here if I can. My boys, they've been here. We stopped by one time. Went to a bowling tournament. In Tulsa they used to have Indian bowling tournaments. They may still have it. We come over there a couple of times. I told them I'd show them where I went to school at, and I brought them up there, two boys. They were small, young then.

MilliganDo they remember that?

HudsonYeah, they remember that. Now they know more because they're older. 46:00They're all working and trying to work. Got kids to raise, too, now. I'm glad of that, but that's about it.

MilliganSounds good to me. You've been a lot of places.

HudsonKind of liked it. If I'd have focused on one thing, I think I might've been better at it. I know when I was in the Air Force, they sent me to Air Force Worldwide in track two years to Wichita Falls [Texas]. Ran against a guy from--let's see. He was a lieutenant. Last I heard, he got shot down in Vietnam. He was a pilot. In 1960, (I think it was 1960) he was silver medalist in the 47:00Olympics, somewhere back there. I run third behind him.

MilliganThat's pretty impressive.

HudsonI thought it was! That was a new event to me. I just got into it. We didn't have anybody in there.

MilliganI guess it's impressive. Depends on how far ahead he was between the second and third, right?

HudsonThere was a guy. He paced me, and that guy, he was ahead twenty yards, something like that. When we got to the end, this guy beat me for second place. I got trophies and medals from there.

MilliganHave you kept them all these years?

HudsonNo, I had them at home. They burned a house down over there, and all the 48:00stuff burned up I had. I've got some stuff over there but something I got later. I don't know how many belt buckles I won. I won a bunch of belt buckles in rodeoing. I gave them all away.

MilliganWhy?

HudsonJust wore one at a time. I got the one I like.

MilliganWhich one's the one you like?

Hudson I won the first in the senior pros. I got the--what was that? They broke up the association into regions, and the first rodeo in the region was in Show Low, Arizona. I won that one. Pretty nice buckle, so I kept that one. I gave the 49:00rest of them away. My brothers got some; friends got some. I got that buckle in the truck, too.

MilliganDo you really? We'll have to see if we can get a picture of you with it. That would be cool. I don't know if you're willing, but we'll see.

HudsonI'll go get it.

Milligan That'd be cool. I'd like that.

HudsonI'll go show you that.

MilliganAll right.

------- End of interview -------