Oral history interview with Charles Burris

Little Thunder My name is Julie Pearson-Little Thunder with the Oklahoma Oral History Research Program at Oklahoma State University. I'm interviewing Charles Burris at the Chilocco alumni reunion here at Chilocco Indian School outside of Newkirk, Oklahoma. Mr. Burris, you were in the Chilocco National Guard, and we're going to talk a little bit about your life and experiences. Thank you for taking the time to talk with me. Where were you born, and where did you grow up?

Burris I was born in Talihina Indian Hospital, and I spent most of my life in the Indian schools, Jones Academy, Sequoyah, and graduated from Chilocco.

Little Thunder What did your folks do for a living?

Burris My mother passed away when I was four, and my daddy was a farmer, and then he quit and moved to Oregon. He worked sawmills up there.

Little Thunder Did you have any brothers or sisters?

Burris Yeah, a bunch of them.

Little Thunder Where do you fall in the lineup?

Burris I'm the youngest boy of the family. There's about ten or twelve of us, and I'm the youngest boy of the family. I had three brothers. Everett, he was in the National Guard. Harold, that worked here at Chilocco, he was in the National Guard, and then James, my other brother just ahead of me, he was in National Guard here.

Little Thunder Wow. What was your exposure to Choctaw culture and language growing up?

Burris I didn't have none. In Indian schools, whatever happened there is what I done.

Little Thunder You ended up going to school at Chilocco when you were how old?

Burris Sixteen, I think. Fifteen or sixteen.

Little Thunder What was one of the hardest adjustments you had to make at Chilocco?

Burris I don't guess I had any because I was used to going to Jones Academy and Sequoyah. After my dad got killed, my older brother Huck, he called me and asked me if I wanted to go to school up here. I told him yeah, so that's how I got up here.

Little Thunder Was he already up here, too?

Burris He worked here.

Little Thunder He worked here, okay.

Burris He graduated in '48, I think.

Little Thunder What did he do here?

Burris Everything. Night watchman, dormitory attendant, and just everywhere, worked on the farm.

Little Thunder Nice to have your brother on campus.

Burris Yeah. That's where I got the nickname at because he was already here.

Little Thunder What drew you to join the National Guard here at Chilocco?

Burris Oh, I needed some money to graduate with. I didn't have no kind of money or nothing for my senior stuff. Captain Greavy told us if we'd join when we's juniors, we wouldn't have to go until six months until after we graduated, so I joined.

Little Thunder What was the pay?

Burris Shoot, I can't remember. It wasn't very much, maybe ninety dollars every month, I believe. It wasn't much.

Little Thunder What was the experience like in the National Guard?

Burris Oh, I liked it. I enjoyed it very much, summer camp and everything. Six months' active duty, I liked that. I don't know why I never did do regular 4:00service. I just never did.

Little Thunder Did you go anywhere for the summer camp or for the active duty?

Burris Yeah, I went to Fort Chaffee [Arkansas] for basics, and then I went to Fort Ord, California, for the rest of it. Then for summer camp, I went to Fort Chaffee.

Little Thunder Was everybody who was in the Guard with you at the time, was it the same group at Fort Chaffee?

Burris Yes, just about, yes. I think there was thirty-two of us that went six months together--.

Little Thunder Were there any non-Indians in the National Guard that went with you?

Burris Yeah, there might have been. I don't remember. I don't really think there was, though.

Little Thunder So what was the training like at Fort Chaffee? What was the boot 5:00camp like?

Burris Just regular service, mostly sports ability, I thought.

Little Thunder Mostly sports? (Laughter)

Burris That's what I thought it was, calisthenics and everything. (Laughter) They had a training deal, Army training and stuff.

Little Thunder Did you feel like you were in pretty good shape already when you arrived?

Burris Yeah because I was out for track here. Well, I didn't go to no sports in my senior year here, though.

Little Thunder But you had gone out for track.

Burris Yes.

Little Thunder What do you remember about your boot camp instructors?

Burris Oh, I don't remember too much about it. Well, one of them went out and got a big olʽ suntan. He was having to take it pretty easy because he had blisters all over him. He had to go ahead and report to duty every day. Because of the blisters, he couldn't--. He was government property, so he had to be 6:00there. (Laughter)

Little Thunder What most surprised you about the training?

Burris Nothing. I was already--been a year in the National Guard here before I ever went, so I pretty well had everything under control.

Little Thunder Fort Chaffee's in Georgia?

Burris No, Arkansas, Fort Smith, out of Fort Smith.

Little Thunder Okay. Had you ever been to Arkansas before?

Burris Yeah.

Little Thunder Did you get a chance to spend time off the base during basic training or not?

Burris No.

Little Thunder What happened after you got back? You were still in school when you joined., so what happened after you got back from serving in the National Guard?

Burris I went to work in Winfield, Kansas, welding and making axles for house 7:00trailers there in Winfield.

Little Thunder How had your training at Chilocco helped you be ready for that job?

Burris I was welding. I took welding here, and then I was welding for them up there.

Little Thunder Did you live in Winnfield for how long?

Burris Oh, probably a couple of years. Then Chance [Rides] manufacturing to make these Zippers--and everything in Wichita, these carnival rides, they was hiring, so I went up there and went to work with them making them rides.

Little Thunder Neat. Did you ever, did you go back to school at any point--

Burris No.

Little Thunder --or did you continue working in the welding business?

Burris I continued to work until--.

Little Thunder Do you participate in some of the veterans doings up here?

Burris Not really. I go to the veterans breakfast, but that's about it.

Little Thunder Why are the Chilocco reunions important to you?

Burris You get to come back and visit with everybody. You don't hardly know anybody now. Everybody's done gone, or they all look different now.

Little Thunder Can you talk a bit about what you feel like having been in the National Guard and having been in Chilocco, how that impacted your life?

Burris I guess like everything else. You just take it as it comes and as it goes. I just enjoyed both of them, really. I guess if it hadn't have been for Chilocco and the sports, I never would have graduated. I can say that much.

Little Thunder The sports are what kept you in school?

Burris Yes, and after my brother got me up here, I never did go home. I didn't have no home, so I just stayed up here.

Little Thunder Did you get to stay--did your brother have his own place to live?

Burris Yeah, he stayed in one of these apartments, him and his wife. Then they bought a place over here at the state line.

Little Thunder So you got to spend some time with him?

Burris Yeah, he used to check me out sometimes on weekends. I'd go hunting with him and everything, fishing.

Little Thunder Great. What would you like people to know about the importance of Chilocco?

Burris It was everything important about it, as far as the school and all that. We had good teachers, I thought, good instruction. Back then I didn't think the 10:00food was good, but now, after you stop and think about it, it was pretty good. (Laughter)

Little Thunder Who were some of your favorite instructors at Chilocco?

Burris Oh, Mr. [Leonard] Hathcoat.

Little Thunder What did he teach?

Burris History, I think. That's been a long time now because '62 was my last year here.

Little Thunder Right. Did the chow, even though it wasn't very good, did it prepare you anyway for what you encountered in boot camp?

Burris No, it was about the same. Had to get in line and get it! (Laughter)

Little Thunder Eat fast.

Burris Every place you had to go, you had to line up to get your chow.

Little Thunder Well, is there anything else you'd like to share that we haven't talked about?

Burris Oh, not that I know of.

Little Thunder I sure appreciate being able to talk with you today, Mr. Burris.

Burris I wish I had more to say, but that's about it. (Laughter)

Little Thunder This is great, thank you.

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