Oral history interview with Michael Elizondo, Jr.

Little Thunder: This is Julie Pearson-Little Thunder. Today is February 20, 2014, and I'm interviewing Michael Elizondo Jr. for the Oklahoma Native Artists Project sponsored by the Oklahoma Oral History Research Program at OSU. We're at Michael's studio in Oklahoma City. Michael, you're Cheyenne, Chumash, and Kaw. Is that correct?

Elizondo: Yes.

Little Thunder: You got your MFA from the University of Oklahoma in 2011, and you've already distinguished yourself with some important group and solo shows in Minneapolis and Washington DC, among other places. You've won several grants and awards including Judges Choice at the 2012 Cherokee National Holiday Show. Thank you for taking the time to talk with me.

Elizondo: Yes.

Little Thunder: Where were you born, and where did you grow up?

Elizondo: I was born in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and I grew up in Tahlequah, Oklahoma.

Little Thunder: Do you have siblings?

Elizondo: Yes, I have one younger brother, an older brother, and an older sister. There's four of us.

Little Thunder: What did your folks do for a living?

Elizondo: My dad, he's a retired art teacher, and he taught around Muskogee, Hilldale, and all around Tahlequah. My mom, she's a security guard with Hertz.

Little Thunder: How about your grandparents? Did you have a relationship with them?

Elizondo: Yes, primarily my grandmothers. My grandpa on my mom's side, he passed away when I was ten, and my dad's dad, he passed away before I was born, so I've been pretty close with my grandmas. They're both still here. My grandma on my dad's side lives in Tulsa. My grandma on my mom's side lives here in Oklahoma City.

Little Thunder: Your grandma on your Cheyenne side is a well-known bead worker. What other kinds of other Cheyenne influences emerge in your art?

Elizondo: Yes. My grandma, I'm very close with her. She's the one who's been 2:00taking me, took me, to our ceremonial grounds when I was younger. She gave me a lot of influence with the Native American Church and our Cheyenne Sun Dance. Whenever I was younger she always explained to me the purpose of some of her designs that she made in her beadwork through cradleboards, vests, moccasins. Whenever I was younger, I really didn't do that same influence directly as far as beadworking. My way of expressing what she taught me was through painting, drawing, and in time, it's pulled me in the direction that I do beadwork, too. This is kind of how it works together.

Little Thunder: Yes, I've seen some really beautiful examples at your place. 3:00What's your first memory of seeing Native art?

Elizondo: Whenever my dad was attending Northeastern State University in Tahlequah, I was in second grade, and I remember going to some of the art shows that he would be invited to around the area of Tahlequah and Muskogee. I believe Murv Jacob and Bill Rabbit, they're among some of the artist around the area, so as far as the subject matter of Native American artists, those were some of the first examples.

Little Thunder: What is your first memory of making art?

Elizondo: I don't have one. For as long as I remember, I've been one--I've always had the urge to make things, and whenever I got older, it just stuck with 4:00me. It's just been growing ever since.

Little Thunder: How much encouragement from your family did you have to develop your artistic skills?

Elizondo: I had a lot of encouragement from all of my family, primarily my dad and my grandma. My dad, actually, was a art student whenever I was younger. He would always encourage me and my brothers to tag along with him. My brothers always seen it as a drag, but I was always pretty excited to--

Little Thunder: To the art classes, you're saying?

Elizondo: To some of the events that the school would have. Whenever he would be working in, take for example, the pottery studio, I would run off in the corner and play with the spare clay they had in the building. Then as well as my grandma, she always took the time to not only remember some of the oral 5:00histories that we have with our people but interpret it in some kind of way through the arts.

Little Thunder: Did you have any other relatives on either side of the family who were artistic?

Elizondo: Yes, not as much on my dad's side. His father, his step-dad, he was a painter. I took a lot of influence from him, as well. On my grandmother's side, she's the oldest of eleven, I believe. Eight of the eleven are heavily influenced by making as many things like beadwork, sculpting, yeah, just a number of things.

Little Thunder: You also have Kaw and Chumash ancestry. Can you talk a little 6:00bit about how those influences manifest themselves in your art?

Elizondo: Yes, the Kaw side I really have little knowledge about. My mother, her grandpa, his name was Levi Chouteau. He was one in eight of the last full bloods left of the tribe, and he passed away in 1980. I believe the last full blood passed away in 2000, and so through that--he was a orphan. Whenever he married my great-grandma, he decided to move to Cheyenne country in El Reno. My mom, she primarily grew up with the Cheyenne relatives, and so I can't really say that I have any influence that comes in through my Kaw side.

As far as my Chumash side, that really didn't start coming around until the past 7:00few years. I've only been to the reservation one time before 2012, which was when I was fourteen years old. I went to go meet my great-grandma. She was sick, and she passed away after that visit, but I was glad to meet her. After I graduated from OU in 2011, the Director of Education, she invited me to do an exhibit out there. I believe the exhibit was called Portraits of [a] People. She asked if I had any work that might reflect that. I said, "Yeah, I have some portraits of my grandma and my dad and a couple cousins, and they're all descendants of the tribe."

They invited me to take part in that. I shipped out my works and then got to 8:00re-meet a lot of relatives I haven't seen since I was a teenager. While I was out there, I have some aunties out there who have a lot of information on the rock art that's out there. When I saw that, they're just beautiful, the color combinations, the organic designs. They said, "Here, go ahead and take these, and whatever way they might influence you, it'll be good for you to learn about that, too." So over the past two years, I've been getting into a lot of drawings I've been doing with the Prismacolor pencils, and I've been kind of reinterpreting what I might see through those designs. Even though I really don't know what they mean, I just kind of pull in whatever influence I can out of them and interpret them in my own way.

Little Thunder: That sounds interesting. So what were your experiences with art 9:00in elementary school growing up?

Elizondo: Most of the schools I went to when I was a younger kid, they really didn't have any art classes, so primarily it was just being around my dad. Whenever I got into high school, they had a artist. His name's Dan Horsechief. He would do a couple of the after-school programs. He was a great influence on me as an artist whenever I was coming of age, and he encouraged me to do some research on other works. I really didn't get much art education until I got into the end of high school and then after.

Little Thunder: And high school was at Sequoyah, right?

Elizondo: Yes.

Little Thunder: Were you also involved in athletics there?

Elizondo: Yes, athletics surrounded my entire life when I was over there. 10:00Whenever I was starting to get into my art, I started to become so immersed into track and cross country that I pushed all my art aside. (Laughs) So yeah, I did cross country and track, and that led me to a scholarship to Oklahoma Baptist [University].

Little Thunder: At Oklahoma Baptist, you decided you were going to major in art?

Elizondo: Yes. For the first two years, I really wasn't thinking too much of a major. I knew that it was going to pull me back into the arts, but whenever I was a junior, after I got all my requirements out of the way, that's when I went head-on into our art project, our art program. Ever since, I've been just fully addicted.

Little Thunder: What kind of base did you get at Oklahoma Baptist University in terms of art, what kinds of skills?

Elizondo: Okay, when I was at Oklahoma Baptist, a lot of it was, as many art students would get, the fundamentals. Because I wasn't just now starting my practices of being an artist, a lot of times I kind of kept to myself. I was able to pick up on a lot of the fundamentals pretty quick, so I kind of skipped 12:00a lot of things and went straight into the advanced courses. Some of the most important things that I've learned from that school towards the end was how to work as a professional: the things that you need, how to network, how to be able to promote yourself, how to be in charge of the little things like your resume, your bio, and all those things. Those are some of the main things that I pulled out of that school. Other than that, they always let me do my own thing and let my own experiences develop wherever my artwork was going to go.

Little Thunder: Long independent study?

Elizondo: Yes.

Little Thunder: When did you sell your first painting, or first piece of 13:00beadwork, I guess?

Elizondo: Yeah, for a long time I didn't get into the sales and exhibits of my artwork. A lot of people were really pushing me to do so, but I don't think it was until 2010 until I started exhibiting. Out of that first exhibit that I did, that's when I got my first sale.

Little Thunder: What was that like?

Elizondo: At the time, it felt like a long time coming because I was working towards it, but I really didn't want my work to be out there until I was fully satisfied with it.

Little Thunder: How did you get to the University of Oklahoma after college? Did you go straight from Oklahoma Baptist University into the MFA program at OU?

Elizondo: Yes.

Little Thunder: Oh, you did?

Elizondo: Yes.

Little Thunder: No time in between?

Elizondo: No. Yeah, I went everything back to back: high school to bachelor's, bachelor's to master's. I just kept the ball rolling.

Little Thunder: How'd you find out about their program?

Elizondo: I just did my own research on the university. I looked around at other programs, but some of the things they had, some of the information they had throughout their collections, (take for example the history collection they have of all the Native American tribes around the state) I knew that was going to be information that I needed for my work. I knew that the painting instructor, the painting chair over there, he had a very good grasp of modern concepts, and that was something I wanted to pull into my work, as well.

Little Thunder: And who is the chair?

Elizondo: His name was Tommy White.

Little Thunder: Were there some other professors there that were especially influential?

Elizondo: Yes. Marwin Begaye, he was a great influence on my experience at the University of Oklahoma. The talks that I had with him as a graduate student, as far as the subject matter of contemporary Native American works, he was very influential in letting me know the things that might be ahead as far as conversations with the work that I was doing and exploring not only Native American tribes here in Oklahoma, around the state, but looking at other indigenous cultures around the world. Those are some of the things that Marwin 16:00brought to my work and my research habits, so that's just one example.

Little Thunder: How did your style change while you were at OU?

Elizondo: Going into the program, one of the things that me and my former chair, Tommy White, came to an agreeance was that whatever it is that you go into the program with, it would be a waste of time if you came out of the program with that same kind of work. Being able to challenge my work on all levels was the main focus that I had at the university. Whenever I came in, I was primarily doing portraits that came from historical perspectives from my 17:00great-great-grandparents (none of them were contemporary) and designs that I got from Native American Church.

They were very flat. They were pretty repetitive, but they're kind of static from my point of view. I wanted to take the time to learn how to bring something new, as far as shaping the panels, building skills, and if I was to do any portraits, I wanted to challenge the subject matter of how is it relevant to today. On all ends, from realism to abstraction, that's how I always challenge my work. How is it relevant to today, and what kind of influence did I get from history?

Little Thunder: Was it at OU that you started working on panels?

Elizondo: Yes. Yeah, up to that point I never had any workshop to work with.

Little Thunder: What happened after you graduated?

Elizondo: Well, the day after graduation, I remember laying in my apartment thinking, "I don't know what I'm going to do." (Laughs) I was kind of tapping my foot. "I'm going to get out there and see if there's any exhibitions going on." When I got on my laptop, the first thing I saw was an exhibition happening at Red Cloud Indian School up north of Pine Ridge [South Dakota]. I was like, "Well, I'm not going to lay here. That's all I know." I packed my work up, drove all the way to South Dakota, and delivered my works, and barely got in for the submission. I got my first award right away after I graduated, and sold that piece at that Heritage Center.

Little Thunder: Then did you stay around for the show and the reception?

Elizondo: No, I wasn't interested. (Laughter)

Little Thunder: Wow, you won an award--

Elizondo: Yeah, so from there--

Little Thunder: --for Most Promising Young Artist, wasn't it, or do you remember the--

Elizondo: Yes, Outstanding Young Artist award. From there, people started contacting me, emailing me, if I had any other works. I've been selling from there, and it's been one big snowball effect.

Little Thunder: That's wonderful. So you're saying a lot of commissions basically came through from that?

Elizondo: Yeah.

Little Thunder: What was the piece that you had in that show?

Elizondo: The piece was titled Ishiwana, which is--I've been told a few ways of how that translation goes. Like when the sun's just now breaking, right in the early morning, we sing those words a lot in our morning songs in Native American Church. The painting itself was a tipi on the horizon, and the sun was just now 20:00beginning to break. That was the piece that I did, and I just wanted to see what kind of chances I would have if I brought it up there.

Little Thunder: Do you do booth shows very much?

Elizondo: Never have. I believe it was one year after I graduated from OU, I became the Artist-in-Residence at the Jacobson House. The director there at the time was Kricket Rhoads. She always liked to do art market in the wintertime and the springtime. She'd always ask me if I wanted to do any booths, but I just 21:00opened up the space and did open studio visits. So up to this point, I haven't been able to do any booth shows like Indian Market in Santa Fe or anything, but it's something that I want to do.

Little Thunder: How did the Artist-in-Residency come about?

Elizondo: Whenever I was still hanging around Norman after I graduated, I would go by and visit, and she would be curious of what I would be up to. She said, "Well, what do you want to do?" I said, "The main thing I know unquestionably that I want to do is I want to continue to make my work without any interruptions in my everyday routines." She said, "Well, that sounds good. We have an open space if you need it," which is the building just south of the main house at the Jacobson. She said, "Would you be interested in using that space?" I said, "Yeah, I'll use it." She said, "There's no restrictions. You make 22:00whatever you want, and we'll give you a key." I just really liked the support that they gave over there.

Little Thunder: Yeah, so it was really support in terms of space, providing you with a free space, and you were selling some of the stuff that you did to your collectors.

Elizondo: Yeah.

Little Thunder: What do you think has been one of your most important museum shows so far?

Elizondo: I haven't done very many museum shows, but I'd have to say that before I graduated at OU they had the annual student exhibition. That was the first museum collection that my works became a part of.

Little Thunder: Was it at the Fred Jones [Museum]?

Elizondo: Yeah.

Little Thunder: Okay.

Elizondo: I believe I got the award--what was the award called? Does it say on here?

Little Thunder: Well, I don't have your CV.

Elizondo: Oh, okay. Yeah, so I got the collection award for that. That was my first time I had my work become a part of any kind of museum collection.

Little Thunder: Sometimes the hardest part of doing art is the business aspect. How do you handle that?

Elizondo: Yes, it definitely makes you work twice as hard for whatever it is you want to do. Whenever I'm starting to get into the groove of making the work, I have to get it down and do the emails and do all the updates of the information 24:00they want. I just try to make everything move together. I really don't get too many conflicts, but everything is trial and error as far as learning how to ship works, who to ship works with, making sure that whoever I'm going to be shipping through that the buyer is going to get everything in a timely manner. Everything's been trial and error up to this point. Now that I've been doing it for a few years, I've been able to kind of find the smoother routes of how to take care of my business with other buyers.

Little Thunder: Have you spent any time applying for grants, too?

Elizondo: I've applied for a few, but I've never got any.

Little Thunder: That can be time consuming.

Elizondo: Yes.

Little Thunder: You've taught art both as a graduate student at OU and at Bacone. How has teaching art to others impacted your own work?

Elizondo: Whenever I was teaching courses with the University of Oklahoma and teaching courses for Bacone, one thing that I really enjoyed was whenever I was going to teach a subject, I would realize that I kind of forgot a lot of information, so it made me go in and actually relearn a lot of subjects. (Laughs) Whenever I was relearning a lot of the subjects through art history or contemporary works that I was researching, I realized that I missed something, so I'd bring it back into my work to practice with. That way I could show them different ends of whatever it is I was talking about.

Little Thunder: You were at Bacone how long?

Elizondo: For one year, two semesters.

Little Thunder: How did that come about, the teaching assignment?

Elizondo: Well, whenever I was Artist-in-Residence with the Jacobson House, I would always like to hang out for the Second [Friday Art Walk] in Norman. I believe in that springtime of 2012, they were having a exhibit at the main site with Tony Tiger, Marwin Begaye, a lot of those who are involved with the Southeastern [Indian] Artists Association. I went to go check it out because I knew they were all going to be over there, so I went to go visit with them. Tony Tiger, we had a good visit. He said, "Hey, there's only two of us who are instructing at Bacone: me and Troy Jackson. If you're interested, you could come 27:00join us. Just send me your resume and your CV and everything." I said, "Okay, that sounds cool. I'll do what I can." I told him, "I won't be able to move over there, but I'll be able to commute," so I commuted twice a week from Oklahoma City to Muskogee, which was pretty challenging. (Laughter)

Little Thunder: I thought you gave a really good talk at the show Uncommon Brothers at the Jacobson House when you showed slides of your work. How do you handle the public speaking that's involved with being an artist?

Elizondo: Sometimes it's smooth; sometimes not as much. I don't consider myself a very verbal person as far as the things I need to explain in my art because that is one thing that has drove me ever since I was a little kid, to be able to 28:00express it visually. A lot of things that I can't push out vocally, I have to force it out through my visuals. Usually if I've spent a lot of time on the visual work, it really helps me communicate it verbally. Generally whenever I'm explaining an older body of work, I can speak it a lot clearer to my audience. Whenever I have a new body of work, it's still kind of sinking in my mind, and I stumble around a little bit.

Little Thunder: That's interesting. How much have you traveled out of state with your work?

Elizondo: As I mentioned, South Dakota was my first. It was my first out-of-state exhibit or taking part of any exhibit. I did that a few times. I 29:00believe I made that trip four times. Then I've been able to travel to Santa Ynez, California, to do that exhibit, and then going out to Santa Fe, just meeting artists. I've never exhibited out there, but I met a artist named Dyani White Hawk Polk. I think she's the director of the All My Relations Gallery in Minnesota. She asked me if I wanted to take part in an exhibit up there in the summer of 2012. I wasn't able to make that trip, but I was reinvited to another exhibit in the summertime of 2013. The exhibit was called Art from Indian Territory. I was able to make that trip up there. Other than that, I've just 30:00been shipping works out to different places around.

Little Thunder: What other galleries have you found representation in?

Elizondo: Let's see. I've never been fully represented by any gallery, but I've exhibited in Marvin Embree Studios in the Paseo district. I've exhibited at Tribes 131 in Norman. I've exhibited in Tulsa Momentum Artists young artists exhibit, and Oklahoma City Momentum. Every year they're generally in different spaces. Those have been some of the main places I've exhibited.

Little Thunder: It's been a mix of Native and non-Native venues.

Elizondo: Yes. I always try to keep all my options open. I never want to be cornered off to contemporary mainstream galleries, and I'll never want to be cornered off in just being in Native American avenues. I kind of like to get a little feel of both, and I like to expose myself to everybody.

Little Thunder: It seems like your work is sort of roughly divided between the realism and then the abstract work, and your website mentions that you like oils for your realistic paintings and acrylics for your abstracts. Why is that?

Elizondo: A lot of abstract work, as far as a lot of the abstract work that I've done, has been pretty hard edged. It comes in handy with the acrylics whenever I'm using a lot of tape. I'm able to layer everything down the way I want it, 32:00and all I got to do is pull that tape off to give it, my designs, that hard edge I'm looking for. The design work, I kind of work quicker with acrylics, which if I was to do those same kind of design works with the oils, it gets a little bit too messy, and the designs don't come out the way I want it. As far as portraits go, I really like to take my time. I don't want to rush the textures and the surfaces of the portraits that I do. I just really enjoy taking my time with the oils whenever it comes to realism.

Little Thunder: I would like to talk about your creative process a little bit more in detail. Have you experimented with other media besides oils and acrylics?

Elizondo: I experimented with lithography for about a year and a half when I was at OU. I've experimented with screen printing, a little bit of installation work but I've never exhibited it, and a little bit of clay work, but in the end it doesn't really keep my attention long enough for me to continue it. I won't ever fully reject it because I think down the road I might find more use for it, but up to this point those are the only things that have been able to keep my attention long enough.

Little Thunder: Was some of the screen printing in conjunction with the Southeastern Artists Association or not?

Elizondo: No, this has all been on my own.

Little Thunder: You haven't been involved with them at all?

Elizondo: No.

Little Thunder: I thought I saw some collage work of yours.

Elizondo: No.

Little Thunder: What do you like about painting on Masonite as opposed to canvas or board?

Elizondo: Yeah, I haven't painted on canvas in probably about six years, primarily because whenever I wanted to learn how build it on my own, I wanted to get the full experience of knowing the piece inside and out. Whenever I learned how to build Masonite and Bristol board panels, I started experimenting a whole lot. I started experimenting on those quite a bit as far as textures and how you handle the piece. Whenever you got a panel, you can get as aggressive as you want almost until you break the thing. Like, if I would have a pallet knife, I 35:00could scratch into it the way I want. I could get different surfaces, different layers that I couldn't with canvas, because if I treated the canvas the same way I did a Masonite panel, I'd probably rip the canvas.

Little Thunder: Right, and you have some woodcutting equipment. Did you have any kind of woodworking background before you started working with the Masonite?

Elizondo: No. Prior to OU, I had zero experience with any power tools as far as table saws and miter saws and all those. Whenever I was in my second year at OU, I signed up for the TA position that they had available. One thing that they had me do in that position was they said, "Well, you need to fulfill so many hours 36:00for the week." I said, "Okay." They said, "You can keep the woodshop open twice a week. Do you have any experience?" I said, "No." (Laughter) They said, "We'll show you one demo, and then you're in charge." (Laughs) So I got that one demonstration, and from that point on I thought, "I better learn all these tools before I start getting all the questions." Sure enough, all those questions came, and I learned it all on the spot.

Little Thunder: That was a great apprenticeship!

Elizondo: Yes. (Laughter)

Little Thunder: The other advantage, of course, is that you can experiment with different sizes and shapes that aren't custom sizes. Why is shape such an important part of the painting process?

Elizondo: Whenever I got into shaping some of my first panels, there were some designs that I had in mind from my grandma's beadwork. She used to explain one design the most that I could remember. It was called the mountain design. I've tried to do narratives of some of the influence I got from that design she was talking about, but they never really came to life for me. I kind of got tired of trying to narrate it, so I thought, "I'm going to shape it." It took me a couple months to learn how to pull that off, but whenever I learned how to do those shapes, it kind of brought in a whole different aspect of building. From that time on, whenever I got into the building part, I started finding myself a little bit more interested in the building of an entire thing, though. You'd be 38:00able to look around not just the front but the side and back, all around. It brought in a whole different aesthetic excitement for me to build it like that.

Little Thunder: So when you talk about narrative, you're talking about a visual narrative--

Elizondo: Yes.

Little Thunder: --and when you're talking about working those three dimensions, you're talking about pieces that actually are painted on every side?

Elizondo: Yes.

Little Thunder: Oh, wow! Okay.

Elizondo: Yes.

Little Thunder: Hopefully we'll get to see one of those.

Elizondo: Yes, except for the back.

Little Thunder: Except for the back, okay. In terms of making your own frames, you taught yourself that, as well, I guess.

Elizondo: I had one demonstration, and then from the--

Little Thunder: Where at?

Elizondo: The University of Oklahoma. I was given one demonstration of how to 39:00make a simple wooden frame. From there, I've learned a few different ways to go about it.

Little Thunder: You know, some artists would be like, "I don't want to spend my time doing that." What's the reward?

Elizondo: Knowing that most people wouldn't go through the time to do that, to spend--. The way I feel is if a lot of artists get--they bring concerns about other people copying their works. I've never felt that. If someone was wanting to go through some of the loops that I go through to make those things, I say, "Feel free, but it's going to be a while before you get there." (Laughter)

Little Thunder: Right! Good luck. (Laughter) Have you collaborated on any 40:00artwork with other artist?

Elizondo: No, I haven't been able to, up to this point.

Little Thunder: I think I remember that your daughter was one of your models. Is that right?

Elizondo: My niece was.

Little Thunder: Your niece. Do you use live models when you do realistic portraits?

Elizondo: No, I just use photographs.

Little Thunder: Do you do a lot of preliminary sketching?

Elizondo: No. I never really got into sketching too much. A lot of times, whenever I get the urge to do something, it has to come out now, so I just get right to it.

Little Thunder: Do the fully finished drawing right away.

Elizondo: Yes. Every once in a while I'll do one quick sketch, but other than that I just go right into it and hope for the best. (Laughs)

Little Thunder: How has your subject matter changed since you got your MFA?

Elizondo: The subject matter has been kind of along the same lines, but I've been able to interpret it visually in a few different ways. I've been able to do it more abstract. That's been the trail I've been on for the past few years is learning how to interpret it differently through symbols that might be able to bring it to a different angle. I haven't really done very many portraits, though, since I graduated from OU. Yeah, the subject matter's been the same, but interpreting it visually has been kind of my main focus lately.

Little Thunder: What's your favorite subject to explore when you're painting?

Elizondo: I would have to say, let's see, bloodline. Ever since I was a little kid, I've always been interested in my bloodline. Of course, today many people of my generation, especially here in Oklahoma, are pretty mixed as far as our cultures go. My mom's side is primarily Cheyenne, and my dad's side is Chumash, but he's also part Spanish. Just researching more about who I come from is always something that's been able to keep my interest because whenever I learn 43:00more about who I came from, it gives me more motivation to share with my future generation, my daughters, my nieces and nephews. That's been my favorite thing to work with.

Little Thunder: What kinds of research do you do?

Elizondo: I like to check out other artists. Of course, there's the artists that are in art history, but I like to check out what's going on now. I get on as many--I like to check out the contemporary galleries that are happening in Tulsa and Oklahoma City.

Little Thunder: You like to go to shows?

Elizondo: Yes, and then I like to check out what's happening around the country. 44:00A lot of it is, I've been able to find a whole lot on Facebook, artists that like to put their pages up. I like to read their artist statements, read their bios, see what kind of work they're doing, and what works as far as how they pull those three things together. Those are some of the ways that I bring to my work, so I can bring those things together better for myself, and, of course, researching their tribal backgrounds and how they interpret it, as well.

Little Thunder: But you don't have your own website yet?

Elizondo: Not at this point. I need to. (Laughs)

Little Thunder: How about your palette? How has that changed?

Elizondo: My palette is--as an undergraduate it was pretty much always just one 45:00or two colors, three colors, four at the most. They never had that sophistication of learning how to complement it, how to contrast it. When I went through graduate school, that began to develop more towards the very end, but over these past few years, I've been able to focus on how those things work even better. My palette itself is I try not to limit it to not only the simple things, but I try to pull in how those things work together all around.

Little Thunder: How important is humor in your work?

Elizondo: Lately, it's been kind of serious. I want to bring some humor back into it because the serious part can kind of feel like a drag not only to the viewer but yourself sometimes. In time, I do want to bring in the humor. Up to this point, it's not very important. (Laughter)

Little Thunder: Do you title your pieces?

Elizondo: Yes.

Little Thunder: And how do you get your ideas for your titles? Does the image come first and then the title?

Elizondo: Yes, a lot of my titles have been the secondary thing. As I mentioned earlier, whenever I have an urge to get a visual out, it comes so fast that my thoughts come second. That's kind of been a challenge, too, because if I'm 47:00invited to do a show and there's a deadline, I pull the work out and have all the work ready, but they say, "What's your title?" I say, "Uh, hold on." (Laughter) Yeah, it usually comes second. Usually, as I mentioned, it takes time for me to sit with it for a little bit before it all makes sense, and then the title comes.

Little Thunder: How about your signature? Has that been difficult, to decide how to sign pieces?

Elizondo: No, whenever I was an undergraduate, when I was doing my senior exhibition I was talking to my grandma about it, and I said, "Did you ever sign your work?" She goes, "Yeah. Everyone always knew me as Mousetrail, so I used to put a P and make a little mouse design." I said, "Oh, that sounds cool," She 48:00said, "Your grandpas, they all do the same with their work. Go check it out." So I went to go check out my grandpas', how they did their signatures. My Cheyenne name is Nahkôheameho which means "bear track," so I decided to go with that. I do an N that's real big, and then the N turns into a bear track itself as I put the E down.

Little Thunder: I hope we get to see that in a minute. What is your creative process beginning with how you get your ideas? Like sometimes people will write things in a notebook, or they'll just start working and something will develop. What's your typical process?

Elizondo: As I mentioned, I really don't get too much into sketching. Sometimes it comes out to that. For the most part, I like to keep some of my old works around because whenever I get multiple works around, like if I have a portrait next to me and I have another one of my abstract pieces next to me, both of those things will kind of click together and bring about a middle ground of what I might have missed in both of those pieces, and they kind of feed off of each other.

Little Thunder: So the new piece will be reflecting that middle ground.

Elizondo: Yes.

Little Thunder: That's interesting. You have a lot more years to go in your career, just starting out here, but looking back from this moment, what's been one important fork in the road for you when you could've gone one way and you decided to go this other way?

Elizondo: Whenever I was about to be done with school, one of my professors who 50:00is an active, he's pretty active in his art making and exhibits, he told me, he said, "If this is what you want to do, just do it. Do everything you can to not let anything sidetrack you from that. If you have to struggle for a little bit, that's what you're going to have to work with, but just know that it'll come. It'll start clicking off for you, and more opportunities will come from it." Whenever times get pretty hard I always think about that, and, sure enough, things always open up.

Little Thunder: What's been the biggest highlight of your career so far?

Elizondo: At this point, I feel like everything's still been more on the 51:00emerging side of everything. I haven't had the big awards or big fellowships yet, but every award that I've gotten so far, like I've had the Outstanding Young Artist Award in South Dakota, Jurors Choice Award from--

Little Thunder: At the Cherokee National?

Elizondo: --yes, and the Fred Jones art collection. Those things, I see them all as equal with one another because they give me motivation to push for what's bigger in the future.

Little Thunder: What's been a low point so far?

Elizondo: Let's see. After I got done, whenever I decided to stay here in 52:00Oklahoma City after I finished up the school year with Bacone, I had to re-reflect on what I was going to do again because this time I didn't have a teaching position available. I didn't have residency lined up, and it really made me question, "What am I doing this for," because at this point all the advice that I had in school was before I became a father. Whenever it looped back around and not have anything open, I had my daughter, and I had to really think about, "Am I just doing this for me, or how am I going to do this in a way that's going to benefit my daughter?" That was kind of a low point, but keeping 53:00back to that advice, it still has motivated me to keep on this path until things work out.

Little Thunder: Well, is there anything else you'd like to add or anything we didn't cover before we look at your work?

Elizondo: I believe that's good until we go ahead and go through the work.

Little Thunder: Okay, so you want to tell us about this fan and little turtle?

Elizondo: Yes, about two years ago, which was 2012, I had an uncle who likes to go to the Native American Church meetings. I was just getting out of the meeting that morning, and he heard that my daughter was just born. He said, "Hey, I heard your daughter was born just a few weeks ago." I said, "Yeah." He said, 54:00"Hey, I got something for you. You know how to make fan handles, or you know how to bead or anything?" I said, "No." He pulled out this red tail and said, "Here, learn. This is for your daughter." (Laughter)

Little Thunder: And you had never beaded a fan handle before?

Elizondo: No, I didn't have any experience in beading at all. I thought that was a great gesture, so it motivated me quite a bit to figure it out. It took me a year and a half to figure everything out. This is my daughter's first fan, and it was the first fan I ever made. I wanted her to have something for whenever she gets older if she wants to dance, she wants to go to the meetings. It motivated me quite a bit to finish it the way it is. With our kids, with our 55:00Cheyenne kids, my grandma always told me it's very important to make sure you get the last part of the umbilical cord that comes off the baby, which is called the hésta'he. She said, "Whenever you get that, make sure that you keep it in a safe place. We usually put the boys' in a lizard design, and we usually put the girls' into a turtle design." So whenever that came off, I decided, "If I'm going to learn how to make a fan for her, I want to be able to learn how to make her turtle for her, too, and I want those things to go together for when she gets older." That's been the motivation and the story of how these things came about.

Little Thunder: Okay, Michael, you want to tell us about this painting?

Elizondo: This piece is titled The Widow's Lair. The Widow's Lair is representational of the word vé'ho'e in Cheyenne which is interpreted for "spider" but was a word that we gave to the white Europeans as they came into this country. It's a recurring theme that goes in my work. When I was younger, I did paintings to represent the vé'ho'e in literal interpretations as in for portraits or whatever, but as I've been getting older, I've been doing it more 57:00symbolically. The story itself stems off of some things that my grandma used to tell me about the society that we live in, that the Western European society that has developed into the society that we live in today can be very unforgiving to Native people in a lot of ways.

One thing how she used to explain it was if you were to get caught into a lifestyle of alcoholism or if you get caught into a life of unhealthy eating, such as diabetes, she has always explained that to me as being caught into the 58:00spider's web. She always tells me, she says, "Don't allow yourself to get caught in that spider's web. Take care of yourself and be aware of the things that don't come from us that can harm us as a people." So for this piece, I used the symbol of a black widow, the red diamonds that are on the black widow's back. I tried to make the design as simple as I could but to kind of bring it together in a way that brings you towards the middle visually because that's how easy it is to be caught into the spiders web.

Little Thunder: And there's actually diamonds within diamonds. How about this painting? What can you tell us about this?

Elizondo: This is also a recurring image that's in my work. I've interpreted it 59:00abstractly, but this is a literal interpretation of it. For us Cheyennes, it's known as the Noahȧ-vose Sacred Mountain in South Dakota, which is located north of Rapid City. It's known as Bear Butte. This place had been a lot of influence on me culturally and through my art practices because whenever I was younger, my grandma would always talk about the design through beadwork. It always amazed me how many stories have came from this location, not only about our history but 60:00about where we're going.

The first time I seen this mountain was whenever I was a teenager. We came across it in the nighttime, and I just thought it was a very powerful memory that I couldn't see it in the daytime but seeing the silhouette and how huge it was. It's a memory that always sticks in my mind. Whenever I do my contemporary works, as far as the subject matter that that focuses on--I always have to reflect back on the stories that come from this mountain to kind of see where about we've been as a people and also reflect about these stories that come from 61:00our prophet Sweet Medicine about where we're going. Those things always help me come to a more or less balanced approach of how I interpret where we're at today.

Little Thunder: Thank you for sharing that, Michael. I appreciate your time today.

Elizondo: Yes.

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