Oral history interview with Timothy Tate Nevaquaya

Little Thunder: This is Julie Pearson-Little Thunder. Today is November 17, 2013, and I'm at Riverwalk, Jenks, in the Nevaquaya Fine Arts Gallery which Timothy and his wife, Alicia, just opened. Timothy, you're Comanche and Choctaw and Chickasaw. Your father, Doc Tate Nevaquaya, was a celebrated painter and flute player, and you are continuing the art tradition in your family but in your own individual style and way. Thank you for taking the time to speak with me.

Nevaquaya: Yes.

Little Thunder: Where were you born and where did you grow up?

Nevaquaya: I was born in Lawton, Oklahoma, at the Indian hospital in 1966.

Little Thunder: And grew up around--

Nevaquaya: I grew up in Apache, Oklahoma, so that's where I've been for approximately forty-seven years.

Little Thunder: Your dad began painting and earning his living that way about the mid-ʼ50s, but what about your mom? Can you tell us a bit about her?

Nevaquaya: Mom and Dad met at Haskell [Indian Nations University] That's where they started their relationship, and then he brought her to Apache. He worked a 1:00regular job, and he painted on the side. Mom knew that there was something really special taking place. He showed a special talent. He really knew a lot about the history of the Comanche people, and he started to paint about it. Mom was really supportive of what he was doing.

Little Thunder: How many siblings do you have?

Nevaquaya: I come from a family of nine, which I have four brothers and four sisters.

Little Thunder: What was your exposure to your grandparents on either side of the family?

Nevaquaya: Well, the only grandparent that I knew was my mother's mom. Her name was Amanda [Cooper] Foraker, and she was a full-blooded Choctaw. That was the only grandparent that I got to know. My dad's mom and dad had passed away in the ʼ40s. That was Victoria Nevaquaya and Lean Nevaquaya.

Little Thunder: Do you have some memories of your maternal grandmother, then?

Nevaquaya: Yes, yes, I do. She had stayed with us quite a bit throughout our lifetime. She was always, she was the head cook whenever she'd come around, and we used to think that the food that she was cooking was Comanche food. Me and my cousin was talking, and all that time it was what a lot of the Choctaws traditionally ate. We thought it was coming from the Comanche people.

Little Thunder: Banaha, isn't it? (Laughter). How much were you around the Comanche language growing up?

Nevaquaya: I was around it all my life when I was growing up. Dad used to have a lot of the Comanche artists come over to the house, and they would sit around and talk. There were people like a gentleman by the name of Leonard Riddles. We 3:00called him Black Moon Riddles. He would come on over. Then there was a gentleman by the name of Bill Poafpybitty. Sometimes Rance Hood would be there, Robby McMurtry, and Weckeah Bradley. Anyway, when they got together the majority of them, they spoke fluent Comanche, so it was in the home quite a bit.

Little Thunder: Were you involved with Native American church growing up?

Nevaquaya: No, not really. I know that my grandfather was a Peyoteist, and then later on--my dad knew quite a bit about it. He, early in his life, was involved with the Native American church. Then later on he really devoted himself to his artwork and painted about it a lot, but he didn't attend them regularly like he did when he was younger.

Little Thunder: How about just regular Indian church, Baptist church, through your mom? Did that impact your artwork at all?

Nevaquaya: Yes, it did. A lot of the belief when I was growing up was about the Lord. My mother, she was a devoted Christian. During my lifetime I've become a Christian, and it really did have a big impact on the production of my art. It really led me into probably the most positive direction I've ever went in my life. My dad also was a layman speaker, so we've been around this all of our life, and it did have a great impact on what I was doing. It helped me to see things in a very positive light, especially about the culture that I come from. A lot of people say that Christianity really pushed our culture aside, but if you really studied that right, it was more positive than negative. It was just 5:00there were a lot of people that really misrepresented Christianity, but once you come to know the Lord and his ways, it's very much different.

Little Thunder: Was your dad's artwork the first Native artwork that you saw, that you were conscious of as being Indian artwork?

Nevaquaya: Yes, yes. Actually, when I was young I used to observe Dad quite a bit growing up, where Mom and Dad's bedroom, he had his table, and he painted every day when he got off work. That was a daily thing was to watch Dad paint. Then on some of the scrap paper, he would give it to me, and I would start drawing. We had been exposed to it all of our life.

Little Thunder: Right alongside, sitting on the floor or something?

Nevaquaya: Yes, yes.

Little Thunder: What is your earliest memory of making art on your own?

Nevaquaya: I'd say a long time ago, me and my sister Joyce, we used to draw in the dirt a lot. We'd make big drawings. To me, I didn't realize we were making art. We were just drawing because we loved it, and the tools that we had, we just used our fingers. We'd always try to out-do each other. That was probably the first time that I really produced anything. It was always horses and Indians because we saw Dad drawing, and it had an effect on us. We thought that was the way to go.

Little Thunder: Did your folks come look at the drawings?

Nevaquaya: No, no, they never did. It was natural. We never asked them to come and look. After we got through, well, then we started approving it, then erase 7:00the ground again, and we'd start over. That was part of our growing up. I guess that's where you could say my art career really started. (Laughter)

Little Thunder: That's great. Did you have any other family members who were artists?

Nevaquaya: Yes, the oldest one, Sonny, he actually is a flute player and a flute maker. Then my brother Edmond, he's a artist, and he really paints in the style of Dad, which is what we call Oklahoma traditional Indian art. Also, he is a composer of music. He's an expert in Peyote religion and also sings a Northern style of music, as well as Southern-style music. He's been doing this for quite some time. Then my younger brother Calvert is also an artist. He's also a 8:00composer of flute music ,and he makes them. My brother Joseph, he's a flute player, although he doesn't make them, but he likes to compose music.

Little Thunder: Did you go to many art shows with your dad when you were young? What was that like?

Nevaquaya: Yeah, the first art exhibit I attended with Dad, I was probably about five years old, which was in Lawton, Oklahoma, at a place called Cache Road Square. That was my first exposure to what an art show was all about. Then later on, he started to get more advanced in his career and started to exhibit at the Galleria in Norman with Reba Olson. So I've been around these events all my life, got acquainted with a lot of the older artists. A lot of them are not among us anymore, people like Fred Beaver, Willard Stone, Solomon McCombs, and 9:00Blackbear Bosin. When I was growing up, I was really immersed in the Oklahoma traditional style of art, and to me I believe that was the only art that really made sense to me.

When I started to grow up, I started to emulate what my dad was doing. I started to listen to a lot of the stories that he told about the Comanche people and the history, and I started to paint like that, or draw, really. Then later on, I started to paint. Then when I started to get more advanced in what I was doing, I began to realize that there was something more that I needed out of this, and I began to deviate from what I'd learned through Dad. Dad's style was a very disciplined style. It was very historical, especially for the Comanche people. He was really instrumental in bridging gaps and helping the other races understand who we are, and what we came from, and the beauty of the culture. 10:00That's one thing that you can learn through a lot of Dad's paintings.

Little Thunder: How early did you start thinking of yourself as an artist?

Nevaquaya: Well, that thought, I don't know if it really ever occurred to me. I think that from the beginning I was already drawing, and I never saw myself as an artist. It was just a way of life. I believe that to say, "Well, I want to become an artist," that never happened. I think that this was my destination. It's the only thing that feels right to me, you know. Working a job, a regular job, for me would probably destroy me in my spirit because art means a lot to me. That's all I knew when I grew up, and that's who I wanted to be. I knew that 11:00that's what I was at that time. That's who I am. There was no doubt, so that question really never existed. I mean, people have asked me, but it was something that I was born to be, I believe.

Little Thunder: What were your experiences with art in primary school?

Nevaquaya: I think a lot of it was probably being exposed to the French Impressionists.

Little Thunder: In elementary school, you saw some of that work?

Nevaquaya: Yes, and I began to realize besides Native American art, there was a whole different world out there, and I wanted to explore it. The thing was, was that I knew that the disciplines that my dad taught were really instrumental in helping me develop, especially in human anatomy and the anatomy of animals. I 12:00began to study a lot about what the French Impressionists knew it was all about, and it was really interesting because they had a different approach. I believe that that was instrumental in helping me develop this style that I've been working in as of late, but I always tell people that the work that I do is deeply rooted in traditional Native American art.

Little Thunder: How about middle school and high school? Were you getting some other art instruction at all?

Nevaquaya: No. At Apache grade school and Apache High School we had arts and crafts which was really, it was nice, but it was not enough. It was not advanced enough. I've always believed that--I was deeply involved in drawing all the time, and I really wasn't a great student academically. I was more involved in producing and drawing because it meant more to me than what I was learning at 13:00the time. To me, the art classes were really not--they were more based in craft than art.

Little Thunder: When did you sell your first piece of art?

Nevaquaya: I believe the first initial sales that I made were really the flutes. This took place probably back in 1981. That's when Dad taught me how to make flutes by hand. Anyway, me and my brother worked on a few commission pieces. Dad, he guided us through the process and showed us how to tune them in, and make them play, and make them look nice. Once that project was completed, then there were some people at the art show that liked what they saw, and I made my first sale. That was a pretty big deal. I think I was in the ninth grade at that 14:00time, and that really inspired me, knowing that somebody thought enough of your work that they would purchase it. The price was fairly good for that day and time, so after that, that's when my flute-making career really kicked off, right there.

Then in 1987 was probably the first time that I sold my first painting to a gentleman by the name of Bob Clayborn. Anyway, he was good friends with my dad, and he collected a lot of my dad's paintings. Dad told him that I was starting to paint, so he said "Well, I'd like to see some of his work." I took the paintings over, and he liked what he had saw, so he purchased three paintings that day. After that, that really was instrumental in helping me to be more 15:00serious about what I was doing. I began to realize that people saw value in what was being done.

Little Thunder: Now, when you were making Native flutes, were you playing, too--

Nevaquaya: Yes.

Little Thunder: --or not as much maybe as your brothers, or just about the same?

Nevaquaya: Well, I was really starting to compose music when I was around eleven years old. We'd heard flute music growing up. At that time, I didn't know that it was a lost and dying art, but I was exposed to it, and I began to make a lot of noise with it in the beginning. I think one day I was actually getting on Dad's nerves because he was painting and I was playing the flute. He went ahead and stopped and took his glasses off. He goes, "Timothy, come here. I'm going to show you. This is how you're going to play the flute." It was a really simple way that he showed me. I closed up all the note holes. He said, "Don't let any air escape. It's going to make a sour note."

He climbed up the scale and climbed back down, and he said, "Right there is all you need to know. Practice it. Later on, you'll start to hear music," and he was right. Almost immediately I began to experience sounds that started to actually make sense, and I began to make music. I began to emulate a lot of the powwow songs, sometimes even trying Peyote songs. Later on, I heard Dad. He composed some flute music that were Comanche hymns, so after that, me and my brothers, we all started doing that. That's how I developed. Then I began to compose my own personal music.

Little Thunder: Going back to right after high school, what did you do afterwards? Were you just starting to make flutes, were you thinking about 17:00college, or--

Nevaquaya: During that time, I was making flutes regularly, and I was drawing. When high school come to an end, I got into the military for a little while. I wanted to experience that.

Little Thunder: What branch?

Nevaquaya: The Army. When I got out, I came home, and I started working on flutes again and drawing. Then a friend of mine come over to the house one morning and said, "I got you a job. You can't make any money doing what you're doing." I thought, "Well, what am I going to be doing?" (Laughs) He introduced me to the world of concrete at that time, so I started working a regular job.

Little Thunder: There in Apache?

Nevaquaya: Yes, well, it was actually in Lawton, Oklahoma. I started traveling 18:00back and forth every day. That's what helped, supported a bit of my career. I started to collect a lot of art supplies and tools to build my flutes. While I was working, I was really painting and making flutes at the same time, which is really kind of tough, but art was always in my heart, and I always made time to produce it. That was when my career really started.

Little Thunder: What was the first booth show that you did by yourself?

Nevaquaya: The first one-man show--

Little Thunder: Or booth show of any kind.

Nevaquaya: Probably--goodness, let me think here. Probably going back to 1993 at Red Earth. Yeah, that was the first time that I had gotten a booth and set up 19:00and exposed my artwork, around that time.

Little Thunder: You told me a story, I think, about Doris Littrell at that show. (Laughs) Can you tell us that story?

Nevaquaya: Well, one day during that show Doris Littrell come up to my booth. She looked at what I was doing, a crowd of people around. She said, "This is going to be the next Doc Tate Nevaquaya!" I mean, she really put me on the spot at that time. I was really surprised to hear something like that, but it gave me a lot of confidence. I believe that she had probably seen something that I was unaware of in my work. Later on, I began to do business, and she started to exhibit my work in her gallery, which is a really big deal. I really thank Dad 20:00for that because he was the one who really led the way. Dad said, "Even though you have this last name, you still have to pay your dues." He was right because being in the art world really wasn't easy. Dad knew it.

When I was developing in my career, Dad would come and critique my work. He was really tough on me. I mean, he really raked me over the coals because he knew that to make a living in Native American art could have some challenges. He was preparing me, although at that time I thought that he was just picking on me, but he was telling me the truth. He would point out the mistakes that I was making. He helped me sharpen my skills. I believe that's really what helped me to develop into the style that I'm working in now. It was a lot of his 21:00disciplinary teachings that was instrumental in helping me develop.

Little Thunder: How soon did you move from that flat style into the style that you've been developing?

Nevaquaya: Well, that probably took a period of about, approximately twenty-four years. That change came when I was really frustrated because I was experimenting with the realistic art. I was really getting involved in oil paint. To me, the work that I was doing looked like what everybody else was doing. I began to question myself a lot about what was so different about what I was doing. I messed up on a painting. I was really frustrated at that time, and I didn't know 22:00which direction to go.

I began to look at the mistake. It was a splotch of paint, and there was something there that was very interesting. I had seen this before, but my logical way of thinking was telling me that this isn't right. I would always either put the painting away or I would try to correct it, but this day was different. It was probably about three o'clock in the morning when this took place, and I began to explore and really just mess the painting up. It seemed like the more chances that I began to take, the more the painting actually improved. I began to realize that something marvelous was taking place. It was almost like speaking and learning a whole different language in a matter of minutes.

I began to realize that something special had happened. That's when I began to 23:00develop in this style. All the drawings I had done in the past that were really failed attempts at what I was wanting, I began to repaint them. All of a sudden, this new approach brought it alive. It brought life into what I was doing. I think during that time I lost a lot of sleep because of that. It was almost as though every time I closed my eyes, this wonderful vision and this new language would start to erupt. I'd have to get up in the middle of the night, and I'd start painting again. Sometimes I would paint for seventeen hours nonstop. It was probably one of the most triumphant moments that I've ever experienced in the art of painting.

I began to realize that this style developed, and it seemed to be very unique. I believe the wonderful part about it was nobody was painting like this, and I began to realize I found my style. It was at a time when I was doing some soul 24:00searching. I didn't realize that this could've taken place a long time ago, but what stifled a lot of growth was my own logical way of thinking. When I began to explore outside the box, that's when I found my style.

Little Thunder: What was an early gallery that you worked with once you found this newer style, looser style?

Nevaquaya: Well, at that time, I know that when I was exhibiting with Doris, she had really got up in age and got out of the business, so I moved over to Tribes [131] Gallery, with Hannah Pate. I was exhibiting there. Then later on when I started working a regular job again, well, I wasn't able to produce because this 25:00job was really--we were working seven days a week, and I was barely producing at that time. Later on, I just went ahead and left the gallery. One day I decided to leave this job and continue in my artwork full-time. Anyway, when this new style developed, I had a friend down in Santa Fe. He goes, "I know a gallery that might accept your work."

I gave him five paintings, and he took them to the Michael McCormick Gallery, and he talked about what I was doing. When he showed them the work, Michael just immediately took to it, and he began to realize, "I've never seen anything like this." He asked my friend, he said, "Is he prolific?" (Laughter) He didn't know how much I produced, but he just said, "Yeah, he's prolific." He said, "Tell him 26:00to come out to Taos because I want to meet him, and I like his work." He immediately began to hang my paintings in his gallery, so that was the first gallery that picked up this style of work. I've been there since 2007, clear up to the present time now, which is 2013.

Little Thunder: Neat. The business side of art is sometimes the hardest part to master. How did you figure out how to price your work, and even transitioning from one style to another?

Nevaquaya: Well, pricing them out is very difficult. My approach initially was I knew that I was new to the art scene, even though I'd been to art shows with Dad, but approaching it by myself was different. I started out selling my 27:00paintings at a very low price. As sales took place, I began to realize in time I could raise them. People actually valued the earlier works. There were some good sales at that time. This was back in the mid-ʼ90s. Then later on, probably around 2006 when I started to experiment with this new style, I began to realize that people were more attracted to it. It was done in oil.

All of my works now are my oil paintings. The medium's a lot more expensive and takes a lot more time, so I began to gradually rise the prices, which is kind of tough. Whenever I started dealing with the McCormick Gallery, they get their commission, and you have to make sure that you're going to get what you worked 28:00for. He was helping me price them. We experimented early to see what people's reaction would be, and there were people that really liked the paintings, and the sales were really good. That's pretty much how we managed to price my paintings. It was really a trial and error.

Little Thunder: Were there some other business challenges that you encountered?

Nevaquaya: No, there really wasn't. It was just getting my work exposed, which the McCormick Gallery done a really good job. They were always having events at the gallery. They would always put my name in a lot of the advertisements, so the sales were always taking place. There was no real challenge there. But 29:00earlier in my career, there was challenges a lot. I didn't really quite know how to market my work. That's why I'd always had a job to support myself. It was always nice whenever I was working and I'd make my regular paycheck, and then I would sell about two paintings. That really helped out a lot.

That was really good, but there was coming a day and time when I realized that I needed to do this full-time because I really felt like I really wanted to develop in a better way, and working a regular job was slowing down my growth. One day when I did quit, it was a pretty big decision, but at that time, though, I was really confident in what I was doing. There were times whenever I did run 30:00into some tough times. I thought about, "Maybe I'll go back to work," and then it seemed to me that something wonderful would always take place. I would realize that I was in the right place at the right time, and this is what I was supposed to be doing. It was like I'd found my place in the universe, and it was to be an artist. That's what I knew I was here for.

Little Thunder: I don't know if your dad got to see a lot of your new style as it was just getting refined.

Nevaquaya: No, Dad had passed away in 1996. That was probably about ten years later when I found this new style, but I believe that Dad had saw something in my work and the way I was developing. He was the one who advised me to get involved in oil paint. He said, he told me, "Timothy, I see what you're trying 31:00to do. If you use oils, I think you can achieve it." So he saw something that I was really unaware of, and I believe it was from his years of experience. He knew that I was trying to explore, especially in color because the colors that Dad used are a lot of earth tones and a lot of primary and secondary. Anything outside that, he really never experimented. It seemed to me that was the direction that I was headed toward, so that was Dad's advice to me, was using oil paints and exploring color. I think in a way he probably saw from a distance what was getting ready to take place. There are times when I wish that Mom and Dad were here to see what's going on now, but I know that they're with me in spirit.

Little Thunder: I know when your dad did pass away, it was such a shock for the Native art world. I can't imagine what you guys went through. Were you able to use your art to sort of work through some of that?

Nevaquaya: I believe that at the time of Dad's death, that actually made me stronger in what I believed in. It made me stronger in the arts, and it helped me. That was what Dad loved, and it was something that I loved, and when Dad wasn't there, I thought, "Well, this is just a way of carrying on." I was going to do it anyway, but it was just like that made me even stronger. I think that some people, it weakens them, but it had a different effect on me. It was a way 33:00of honoring Dad and honoring his memory, was to develop in what I was doing and share this with the world.

I believe that's a lot of what Dad had done. He shared his knowledge with the world through his art, showing people that this was the way of not just the Comanche people, but he painted about different other tribes and showed the beauty in them. For me, this is my way of honoring Dad and exposing the world to another place. My thing is to create a sanctuary for others, and I believe Dad did the same thing. After his death, it did strengthen me.

Little Thunder: In 2002, you won First Place in painting at the American Indian Artists Exposition in Anadarko. How did it feel to get that award kind of on 34:00your home turf? (Laughter)

Nevaquaya: Well, a friend of mine had advised me to--he said, "Have you ever been in an art competition?" I said, "No, I've never been in one." At that time, I believed in what I was doing, but putting it in a competition was just a whole different world. He goes "Why don't you just test this painting out and see what happens?" He goes "Just take a chance." I said, "All right." So I went ahead and went down and registered two paintings and two drawings. Anyway, I saw the other pieces that were being set up, and I thought, "Oh, God, these guys, they already won." That's what I thought. (Laughter)

Anyway, we come back after the judging had taken place. I'd saw the ribbons on some of the paintings that I knew were going to win, and I thought, "Okay." I 35:00saw people gathered around one painting. I looked, and it was mine. It had a purple ribbon on it. I'd won Best of Show. It was a big relief, you know. I don't know why I felt under pressure. I guess I thought just the fear of being rejected in a contest, but it ended up winning. Then the two charcoal drawings that I had won Second and Third place, so it was a pretty triumphant moment right there.

Little Thunder: Thought you might enter a few more competitive shows after that. (Laughter) In 2012, you did a two-man show with your brother Calvert at Southern Plains Indian Museum called Breaking Tradition. Can you tell us how that one came about?

Nevaquaya: Well, me and my brother Calvert, we both started working together, and we were sharing a studio. We both started out in the Oklahoma traditional 36:00style of art, based upon Dad's career, what he was doing, but we both started breaking away. We were experimenting, so both of our careers were really in the traditional arts. Now if you look at them today, you might see a slight resemblance of traditionalism, but it's totally changed, so I thought, "Why don't we title this show called Breaking Traditions because we broke away from that?"

I remember at one time back in the ʼ60s and ʼ70s, there was a lot of controversy on Indian art. I think T. C. Cannon and Fritz Scholder were the ones who really started breaking the traditions. This is just our way of breaking away from what we'd learned through Dad. But I believe that Dad had given us some good basic fundamentals, and that's what helped carry us over into this new 37:00style of artwork.

Anyway, I thought that was an appropriate title for the show, and it was most successful. The artwork was totally different from what a lot of people expected to see. They were expecting to see the flat, two-dimensional style, but then when they come into the room and they saw these paintings, they began to realize, "Hey, these boys did break away." (Laughter)

Little Thunder: That's a big show to do. How many pieces did you--

Nevaquaya: I think we had approximately twenty-eight pieces. We really worked hard for that show. I think we painted for approximately six months. Then we had a friend come over, and he hung the show for us and did a really a nice job. Yeah, we really knuckled down for that one.

Little Thunder: Have commissions been a big part of your work?

Nevaquaya: Yes, as of lately. I've got a commission from the Comanche Nation funeral home to do a mural, which is pending right now. They want a scene of a thunderstorm with buffalo in the foreground. The painting will probably be, I think, four foot by twelve foot. Then one of the first commissions that I did receive was from the NAGPRA [Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act] program from the Comanche Tribe. They wanted that painting to be done with images of the history of the Comanche people, so that was a pretty tough project.

Little Thunder: Was it a mural, also?

Nevaquaya: No, actually it was just, it was a regular small painting. It was probably, I think, twenty by twenty-four, and it was done in watercolor. It was 39:00just to symbolize the Comanche way of life and how they buried the people. I did nine paintings, and they selected one, which is probably the most simplified one because there were some that were really complicated. It was a pretty tough project. Now that painting's exposed in Washington DC and at the NAGPRA office in Lawton, Oklahoma.

Little Thunder: Will this be your first mural, for the funeral home? Have you done a mural before?

Nevaquaya: No, this will be my first mural project, so I look forward to the challenge of it. I think it's going to be done in oil.

Little Thunder: Wow, great. You and Alicia just officially opened your gallery this week and also got married this week. (Laughs)

Nevaquaya: Yes, we certainly did.

Little Thunder: How did you become interested in opening a gallery together?

Nevaquaya: Well, one day we went to dinner at the restaurant, at Los Cabos, and we decided to take a walk. We saw some of the buildings that were empty, and she said, "Tim, how would you like to have a gallery here at the Riverwalk?" I thought that was a really nice idea. I said, "Yeah," so we started to walk around and look inside the buildings and began to exchange thoughts. She said, "Well, we can make this happen." She goes, "Do you want this?" I said, "Yes, I do. Let's see what happens." We went ahead and wrote up a proposal, and we presented it to the Creeks here, the Muscogee Creeks, and they seemed to like the idea. They drew up a contract, and we signed it. They gave us the space that 41:00we asked for, so that's how that all started. It was really a bit of--we were daydreaming and actually made it become a reality. (Laughter)

Little Thunder: That's wonderful. I know you're going to carry, as I understand it, not just your work but work by other artists, too.

Nevaquaya: Yes, I believe that's really something that I--when we were dreaming, I thought, "I remember when I first started getting into galleries. It's pretty tough, but," I thought, "this is my way of helping others and exposing them." I thought we could promote some up-and-coming artists. If nobody's going to give them a chance, we'll give them a shot here, and hopefully we can help them live out their dreams, what they wanted. There was a lot of people who helped me, so this is my way of helping others in this community and all the up-and-coming 42:00artists who may give some beautiful gifts to the world. I'd love to help them.

Little Thunder: Let's talk about your practices and techniques a little bit more. The style that you've been referring to, which I think is particularly effective at capturing action, it kind of reminds me of those like high-speed photographs--

Nevaquaya: Oh, yes.

Little Thunder: --where there's those little trailers of light and stuff, streaks of light. Were you consciously thinking of that, or--

Nevaquaya: No. I've always been asked, "There's a lot of motion in your painting." In the beginning, I didn't have the technical capabilities of producing motion. That really is just a by-product of what I was exploring.

Little Thunder: That loosening up--.

Nevaquaya: Yes. I believe, to me, the kaleidoscope of color and the works that 43:00I'd been doing really give the illusion of motion, so I began to realize this was the way. If I wanted to put motion, I would use a palette knife and use different colors and blend them in a really neat way. I began to think it was really based upon the palette knife, how you would smooth the paint out, and how the kaleidoscope of color would come together, and it would give this neat illusion. I began to really explore that, but that's how the motion was put in.

Little Thunder: So are you using brushwork at all, too, or is it mainly palette knife?

Nevaquaya: Well, initially, all of my paintings start out with brushwork, using 44:00paintbrushes. Then once you reach a certain point, then I'll start to explore with the palette knife. That's when the real fun starts because in the beginning you start out with this idea, but once you get this idea to a certain point that's really recognizable, then that's when this neat dynamics start to come in. Color dynamics is what I always call them, and that's when you begin to explore. The beautiful thing about it is that there's such an influence there that anything's possible. Anything. This can go in any direction you want. I never thought that I would reach a level in thinking like this, especially in the arts. That was one thing about the traditional art was it would limit you, but this style seems to go in any direction you want.

I think that what helped me get there was based upon the basic fundamentals of what Dad had taught me early. Then it was just a matter of time before I went 45:00into this mysterious world which I love very much. When that style developed, it really changed the way I think, it changed the way I approach art, and even a strange philosophy began to develop. Something new, it seemed to me. At night I'd get up, and I would write things down about what I was feeling, and it was all based upon painting.

The beautiful thing about it is when people do see what this produced, it has a profound effect on a lot of them, things that I thought were not possible in my work. Some people, it provides a nice sanctuary that they can escape through what's been done. I never thought that I would ever reach a point like that. To me, at one time it was almost impossible. I was trying to produce something that 46:00I thought was meaningful, but technically I was struggling. But it seems to me now, this has been probably the greatest breakthrough that I've ever experienced in my life. It was through this new style that's developing, and I don't think that this style will ever stop developing. I believe that it'll go on as long as I'm still here on this earth.

Little Thunder: Does sketching play any kind of role in your work?

Nevaquaya: Yes, yes, the majority of the works that I do are sketched out. At one time I used to go into a full, complicated sketch process, which I learned through Dad because through all of his paintings, he had to sketch it out first. Then he would transfer it onto the board that he was working on. I was doing the same thing, but when this style developed, then I began to realize that I didn't 47:00have to go into a full sketch. Just get your point across, and then transfer it onto the canvas. Then once you get it established and to a certain point, then you can explore. That was really something that I think made artwork more fun than work.

Little Thunder: So some of your subject matter is Plains, Comanche, or some of the Apache fire dancers you've done.

Nevaquaya: Yeah.

Little Thunder: Do you also do Choctaw and Chickasaw subject matter?

Nevaquaya: Well, I've just started to explore the Choctaw culture. I'm still doing research, but I did do a couple of paintings of Choctaw dances. I believe one of them was the Four-Step War Dance. Then there were others where I just did 48:00individual paintings of the women. I believe that the regalia that they were wearing was very colorful and beautiful, and the music that went along with it was really something different. I was used to hearing Southern Plains music from the Comanches and the Kiowas and the Apaches, but now that I began to study the Choctaw culture, their music is quite different. It was very meaningful. It went right along with their dances. Their music was what inspired some of the paintings that I've been working on. It's pretty interesting, so I plan to do more.

Little Thunder: I look forward to seeing those. What's the role of story in your work?

Nevaquaya: You know, in the beginning when I was developing early in my career, there was always a bit of a narrative. The painting would always tell a story of 49:00a hunter, or an encounter with the buffalo, or the Peyote religion, but as of lately I get an idea, and sometimes it is based upon a story. I take that idea and explore it. It's almost as now. It seemed to me I'd really got so involved in the technique that the subject almost seemed to become secondary. I believe that there's a sublime story that can be told through color and form and through the image, and I believe that today a lot of people have their own interpretation, which is a wonderful thing. To me, that's probably the most correct you can say about a painting is what it makes you feel and how it speaks to you.

I always believed that on the work that I've been doing, there's a spirit there, 50:00and I've come to realize that. It's through the years of being exposed to the people that I've come across and the stories that Dad told, and now it comes natural to me. I believe that the people that have collected my work, they feel it. In the beginning when I was first developing, that really wasn't there. A lot of my work was really technical. It was really devoid of any spirit, so there was a perfect timing for when this evolved. It seemed to me, back in 2006 and 2007, that's when the electricity really come into my work. (Laughter)

Little Thunder: How about titles? Do they come easily? Are they important, or--

Nevaquaya: Yes, you know, a title can really say a lot. It can give people a 51:00really good understanding. I know that I've been guilty of not titling my paintings in such a good way, but to me, I really hate to see somebody do a nice job and then just have either no title or something terrible.

Today I'm beginning to realize that it's really important to title your paintings. It will help people understand and also develop in thought. It'll have an effect, so it's very important to me.

Little Thunder: How about your signature? Sometimes that's an art, deciding how you want to sign your painting and where, etcetera.

Nevaquaya: For me, as of lately I usually just etch my name into the painting while it's still wet. I do it very small. I want people to be more focused on 52:00what's going on than reading my name. I think it's more important for them to get into the painting, so you'll barely see my name. It's there, but it's not wide open. It's not easily seen. You have to look for it. Hopefully, people will see my signature all over the canvas and say, "Well, this is Tim." (Laughter)

Little Thunder: How important is humor in your work?

Nevaquaya: Well, humor really never quite existed in my work. (Laughs) In the past, I've done a few cartoons because I'd watch Dad. He was a wonderful cartoonist. He knew how to make you laugh with his pictures, but for me, mine 53:00was always more serious. One day I'd gotten the tail end of one of Dad's funny cartoons because I was drawing a football player, and it was a real serious drawing. Dad says, he goes, "Let me have a few minutes with that." He was getting ready to eat dinner, so he drew up a big giant football player, and he had a big belly and a big helmet on. He made my guy look so small, it looked like he was really going to knock this guy off his feet. I was a little upset, but when I thought about it, it was really funny. It was just the way Dad did it. This guy's face was sticking out of his helmet. He had a big nose, and there was a Band-Aid. (Laughter) That was Dad. That was his sense of humor.

Little Thunder: That's cute. What is your creative process from the time you get an idea?

Nevaquaya: Once I get an idea, I start to sketch it out. There'll be about three 54:00or four different sketches, and I'll pick out which one best will do. From that point on, I'll go ahead and transfer it onto the canvas. Even the canvas, I hand-stretch my canvas. I make my own frames. I like the idea that at any time I can make any size that I want. I'll select a size. That's really important. I hate wasting a good idea on a small painting. I want this thing to come alive and speak to people, so usually I like to work with larger pieces. Once I've decided what size it's going to be and after the sketch is done, then I'll usually paint the background black. I'll use acrylic.

Then I'll transfer the drawing onto the canvas, and once I get that established, 55:00then that's when I start to paint in the idea. That's done with a paintbrush. Once that is established, well, that's when I start to move into the palette knife. Some of these paintings, some of them take about two to three days to finish, and there are some paintings that I've labored over for about three to four weeks.

Little Thunder: Do you tend to pick up one piece and work straight through until that's finished, or do you work simultaneously?

Nevaquaya: Yes, I pretty much will concentrate on one painting. Every once in a while (it's very rare) I will have two paintings going at the same time. There are some paintings that I have to let dry so I can go to another phase of it. With oil paints the drying process takes a lot longer. During that time, I'll go 56:00ahead and start on another idea that I've been working on, but usually I pretty much will work on one painting and see it all the way through. Working on two doesn't happen too often.

Little Thunder: What is your creative routine? Do you paint more at night or during the day, or--

Nevaquaya: Well, for a long time I was painting during the day, but as of late I've switched over to nighttime. It seems to me I'm becoming very creative late at night, especially around three o'clock in the morning. Those have been some of my most triumphant moments. Late at night, I'm all by myself, and it seems to me when you start to come toward the finish line and everything's working right, it's like the Super Bowl but you're by yourself. It's really, it's a great time, 57:00so nighttime to me seems to be the best times, or early in the morning.

Little Thunder: Looking back on your career so far, what's been a really pivotal moment, a kind of fork in the road for you?

Nevaquaya: That one I really going to have to think of the best way--. Well, I think a very pivotal moment was when Dad passed away, that right there. I began to take everything more seriously at that time, and I began to put more of myself into my work. That was, I believe, when I got really deeply involved was when Dad's life ended.

Little Thunder: What has been one of the high points in your career so far?

Nevaquaya: I think really that was in my personal life when I began to develop 58:00this new style. That right there probably had to have been the most significant because I found a way to express myself and how I felt about what I was doing. That right there was a really powerful point in my career, finally finding my own style. The beautiful part about it is it's started to become accepted. That was what I wanted, but I didn't know how to do it. One day when it did happen, I began to realize that this is what I'm going to do.

Little Thunder: How about a low point in your career so far?

Nevaquaya: (Laughs) Well, I've had a few of them, yeah. I have to think on that 59:00because I've come across a few speed bumps. Some of them happened in my personal life. I think, too, when I was working seven days a week and I wasn't able to paint like I wanted to, it seemed to me that every time I was out on the job I'd have a fantastic idea, and I realized that I wasn't going to be able to produce it. That felt like I wasn't advancing the way I should be. I don't know if you really would consider that a low point, but it was a very frustrating time. Then eventually making the decision to become a full-time artist, I knew that I was 60:00walking away from a regular paycheck that's very dependable to a world that was very uncertain. Once I got involved in it, I did have some pretty lean moments financially, but there were also a lot of breakthroughs.

But, yeah, there were some low points there, and there were a few times I didn't know if I was going to be able to make it full-time. Then again, when I started this new style of work, I began to realize that, "Hey, you can do this. You can do it." I tell other artists who are going through some struggles to continually explore because through your consistency you'll find yourself. It's there. It's there for everybody. It's just a matter of how bad you want it. I always tell others to keep studying your work because there's things that's taking place 61:00that you don't see or you're unaware of. There's just a right time, and the only way you're going to see it is if you do it every day, every day. One day your signature style will evolve. It'll come alive for you. I believe that everybody has that chance, and my advice to them is to continually produce, continually explore.

Little Thunder: Is there anything else you'd like to talk about before we have a look at your artwork?

Nevaquaya: Well, I know that starting the gallery was a really big deal in my life. I hope that all the artists that we exhibit here will all find their place in the universe. I hope that I'm instrumental in helping them find it, and I hope that I'm instrumental in helping their dreams come true. I hope that they 62:00advance far more than what they think in their own minds. I want to be a part of it. I hope that I can help them receive that.

Little Thunder: Well, let's take a look at some of your paintings. Would you like to tell us about this painting, Timothy?

Nevaquaya: Yes, this painting right here is really symbolic of a Peyote meeting. Whenever the ceremony really gets going, once they begin to take in the Peyote, I think that something very inspirational takes place and these gentlemen are able to speak in such an inspired way. A lot happens inside the meeting, so for me this is just a new expression of how I felt about it, and being around it, 63:00and enjoying my life, and watching my brothers participate in it. For me, this is something that evolved out of that. The title of the painting is called Dancing Stars which, actually, I let my son Sage title. Me and his mom asked him what he thought about the painting and what would be a nice title, so he said, "How about Dancing Stars?" So we thought that was really appropriate.

Little Thunder: That's wonderful. How about this painting?

Nevaquaya: This painting right here is what we call a Mountain Spirit, which really--when I was growing up, I was raised right around the Chiricahua Apaches and some of the Mescalero Apaches. I used to attend a lot of their ceremonies, so as of lately they've become a primary focus of what I do. This one right here 64:00is from the symbolic of the Gooday family which are Chiricahua Apaches that settled in our area. This is regalia that they'd wear, but also the abstract design is pretty much my way of bringing out the spirituality of the dance and how I feel about it. When I developed this new style, it actually helped me to pretty much bring life to the spiritual world that we are really unaware of, although we sense it and feel it. In the painting, it really helps it come out. This is one of my favorite subjects.

Little Thunder: How about this piece?

Nevaquaya: This one is called Love Song on the Plains. When I was growing up, I was always exposed to flute music. I used to hear a lot of stories about the 65:00Comanches and how they would court the one that they were interested in, and they would use a flute. That was how they gave their love calls. Now, the flute had a lot of different uses, but this was one of the primary uses among the Comanche people, so this one is titled Love Song on the Plains.

Little Thunder: That's really nice. Well, thank you so much for talking with us today.

Nevaquaya: Thank you, Julie.

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